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desteve1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote desteve1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: crazy sailors
    Posted: 10 Apr 10 at 6:52pm
is there a rule stating that colision must be avoided ? it seemed completely unfair because she crashed into my boat and ruined my fibreglass hull, she knocked my brothers brand new burgee and sunk it and grazed a few other toppers and oppies. all of us did our turns and everything but it seems unfair to not punish her for careless sailing...
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 10 at 7:23pm
There is, but the most significant ryle is probably this one:
31(b) if the boat caused injury or serious damage or gained a significant advantage in the race or series by her breach her penalty shall be to retire.


which states that in the event of serious damage just doing turns is not adequate. Of course that does depend who was at fault...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote desteve1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 10 at 7:49pm
if she deliberaty runs into you to make you do turns ?
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Garry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 10 at 5:24pm
If its deliberate then its a breech of rule 2 a
disqualification under this is non discardable. However,
if a collision took place and you had to do turns then
that also suggests you broke a rule? If so you would
solve this by everyone just following the rules...

Also if the collision was deliberate and you have
evidence you should let your insurance company know as
part of the claim.

What you probably need is someone to take this to the RYA
arbitration scheme if your club is signed up to it.

Garry

Lark 2252, Contender 298

www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk
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Andymac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 10 at 6:15pm

Originally posted by desteve1

if she deliberaty runs into you to make you do turns ?

Ditto Garry;

IF she had opportunity to avoid collision (or lessen impact/damage), then she should have taken avoiding action. To deliberately not do so (even though she had right of way) I also believe would fall within the scope of rule 2.

It would certainly be interesting to present this case (backed up by a successful protest) through insurance for the avoidable damage caused...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 10 at 6:38pm
The main point that needs to be made from this is that there should always be a protest hearing if there's insurance level damage...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 10 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by JimC

The main point that needs to be made from
this is that there should always be a protest hearing if
there's insurance level damage...
Agreed
Garry

Lark 2252, Contender 298

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Garry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 10 at 9:12pm
Its probably worth making a further point here and I am
sure those that regularly race small dinghies will
sometimes get themselves into sticky situations. We
sometimes push the rules, so most common is probably
squeezing ahead of a starboard boat when you're on port,
tacking at the windward mark and trying to squeeze
through or going inside when there isn't enough room or
you're not entitled. Sometimes even the best of us
misjudge that and the right of way boat has to avoid a
collision.

Conversely if I think someone is going to tack inside
because I've over-stood or squeeze inside when they don't
have mark room, I'll try and get down to the lay-line to
force them to tack early, go outside...

In these situations its easy to get it slightly wrong (on
both sides). We have to accept that and try our hardest
to avoid contact, that way if one or both of us make a
mistake and there is contact its rarely significant. If
we start to try and deliberately have contact it will
only be a matter of time before you cause £100s of damage
- we all pay for that in higher insurance premiums.

There's also a bit of common sense needed, a foiling moth
or twin wire skiff in any breeze has a lot less manoeuvrability than a Lark so its best to give them room
rather than get involved in close quarters last minute
avoidance. Furthermore if I was sailing a 40 foot yacht
I would leave a much bigger gap, because the consequences
of a small error are so much greater.
Garry

Lark 2252, Contender 298

www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk
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Andymac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 10 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by Garry

Originally posted by JimC

The main point that needs to be made from
this is that there should always be a protest hearing if
there's insurance level damage...
Agreed
Agreed
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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 10 at 11:47pm

Originally posted by JimC

The main point that needs to be made from this is that there should always be a protest hearing if there's insurance level damage...

In principle I disagree.  If two parties in a damage collision are honest and agree on the circumstances and who was at fault there should be no necessity for the matter to be 'formalised' by a protest hearing.

Remember, protests are about places in races, not about fault in a legal sense.  Look at rule 68 and the relevant RYA prescription.

Note also that RYA Arbitration is just another means of resolving a protest:  it is not like an insurance or damages arbitration.

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