Cirrus Icon Development

   Hi Russell,
I've really enjoyed my NS pver the last couple of years, but found myself using my bigger (not class legal) rig more and more.  If you're not sticking to NS rules, it makes sense to go a bit bigger, esp in Britain, as the NS sails are very small (but more powerful than most, size for size) and optimum crew weight is definitely on the light side of average.
With development classes hull shapes can become harder and harder to sail (becoming narrower on the waterline), for small increases in speed.   As a one design class, it does not make sense to go for an overly sensitive hull shape just because it may, in skilled hands, be ever so fractionally faster.  The Icon (Flight) hull is more forgiving than some other NS hulls, but fully competitive speed wise, having won races at last year's (or was it two years ago now?) NSW states champs. It is also a good shape for our lighter winds. 
For all the similarities between Oz and the UK, there are differences as well and these need to be reflected in boat design.  
Its good to have your input though Russell, and I'll be sure to update you guys as soon as the NS forum is back up and running. 

Edited by Peaky

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Guests Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Quote Reply Topic: Cirrus Icon Development Posted: 20 Mar 10 at 9:47am
	Hi Russell, I've really enjoyed my NS pver the last couple of years, but found myself using my bigger (not class legal) rig more and more. If you're not sticking to NS rules, it makes sense to go a bit bigger, esp in Britain, as the NS sails are very small (but more powerful than most, size for size) and optimum crew weight is definitely on the light side of average. With development classes hull shapes can become harder and harder to sail (becoming narrower on the waterline), for small increases in speed. As a one design class, it does not make sense to go for an overly sensitive hull shape just because it may, in skilled hands, be ever so fractionally faster. The Icon (Flight) hull is more forgiving than some other NS hulls, but fully competitive speed wise, having won races at last year's (or was it two years ago now?) NSW states champs. It is also a good shape for our lighter winds. For all the similarities between Oz and the UK, there are differences as well and these need to be reflected in boat design. Its good to have your input though Russell, and I'll be sure to update you guys as soon as the NS forum is back up and running. Edited by Peaky

blaze720 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote blaze720 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 10 at 1:40pm
	A few more pics from Sunday .... Attention to non-slip, battens, centreboard, sheeting angles etc in progress. First races demonstrated potential but we were frustrated by over-stiff battens in light conditions making life a bit hit and miss in transitions. Jib Sheeting was not right all day but the boat points high without any optimaisation and is plenty fast enough. We got that sorted eventually and it now points as high as anything. Hull 002 is now off for interim surgery to prepare for centreboard option testing and sails back to North for a few (batten) adjustments. Aesthetics and other key changes next month when the look will get the treatment and then straight to tooling. Our partners in Chile (who have recently stated making Blaze/Halo) saw the photos and have dropped a similar project, demanding a hull and (duplicate) tooling as soon as we can organise. Guys Icon is really going to happen ..... thanks for all the support.

Merlinboy Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 03 Jul 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3169	Post Options Post Reply Quote Merlinboy Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 10 at 1:44pm
	I think its great Mike well done, not sure about the Jib, but i can understand the sheeting issues. I would love to have go in one, once the production model is available.

blaze720 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote blaze720 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 10 at 3:39pm
	Merlinboy et al It looks fine but the production version s really just the starting point and it will have many planned changes to make production easy and meet the full requirements of the target owners. It will not be an NS but we still want to keep the 'look' which is striking and certainly the feel. It needs updating in some areas to my eye but as we have said all along it was a great place to start. Mike L.

Neptune Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jun 09 Location: Berkshire United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1314	Post Options Post Reply Quote Neptune Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 10 at 4:09pm
	Simon looks happier sitting on the side rather than hugging the dagger board. Mark

Russell Moore Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 05 Dec 07 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Russell Moore Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 10 at 10:14pm
	Mike, I certainly wish you luck with the Icon, the second offspring from the NS 14, the first being the Tasar. Even the Tasar went through some serious modifications, and in its early development I am sure it was called a Nova and had a plum bow, which was dropped due to pressure from the overseas sailors. The jib looks like it will need some work, it appears to be cut too high at the clew, as the NS jib is cut to hug the deck for an end plate effect. Also we use a barberhauler when reaching. The old adage for the jib slot is to have a 100mm slot parallel to the mast all the way up the leach when you sheet the jib centred with both sheets. The use of the rotator is critical, upwind it is set at about 30 degrees off centre, and reaching out as far as 50 degrees or more. Reaching, we let off the outhaul, and downhaul, and add rotation, and add a little more vang to compensate for the gooseneck moving forward with the extra rotation. I also drop the leeward stay off about halfway, this helps to keep the rotator in place and keeps the stay from distorting the main. The main thought with the rotator is to try and keep the imaginary curved line of the batterns following through the main axis of the mast. To help with 'popping' the batterns through tacks in light air you need light batterns, and light pressure on the battern ties. A good trick is to leave the rotator in its original position through the tack and as you bring the boat upright from the roll tack, flip the boom, and then rotate. In fresh winds it happens automatically, the battern popping that is. The crew in an NS are not just there for ballast! Maybe when you get up and running with the class, you could invite one of our top skippers over to get you guys up to speed, Peter Vaiciurgis or Hugh Tait come to mind here.
	1973

Jon Meadowcroft Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 26 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 64	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jon Meadowcroft Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 10 at 10:18pm
	Why keep the boom so low? From memory of sailing the NS there was not much room for even a small crew. In Oz this was not often a big issue as there was often a decent breeze and we were hiked but over here on a little pond the crew will be sat on their knees and ideally their weight will be well forward. Would a higher gooseneck help. Put the sail area at the top of the mast instead?

blaze720 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote blaze720 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 10 at 11:07pm
	Hi Jon We agree .... although it is not that low. There are lots of other changes in the pipeline as well. Not all will be available on prototypes at this stage but are planned. Stepping out of the NS rule set allows us to try all sorts of things.. We really like the wing mast format but will be trying a taller carbon slimline 'stick' for comparitive purposes and if we did go this way can also try a Gnav. Russell Thanks for the input. I raced Tasars with my kids a few years back and we always rotated before the tack mainly because when they started this required less effort and it bacame habit. Agree with you about the amount of rotation etc. The initial sails are not bad at all - North have done well but the battens do require attention at present and are basically too hard up top. I can sort of see why the Tasar evolved in its way more easily now as well. But we will stay closer to the NS 'look' and style but the overall size ... may change yet. Mike L.

blaze720 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote blaze720 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 10 at 6:59pm


Jon711 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 04 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 465	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jon711 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 10 at 7:12pm
	Nice picture, and it is suprising, how it makes the 400 sail plan look antiquated. However I must admit that the Merlin sail plan looks nicer (But as an ex Merlin crew I may be biased!!) Is there a case of camera distortion, it looks like the Icon has the smallest rig?? It didn't look like that at the Dinghy Show!!