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Another PY poll...
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Poll Question: Does your club:
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
38 [43.18%]
50 [56.82%]
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Captain Morgan View Drop Down
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Posts: 211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Captain Morgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Another PY poll...
    Posted: 24 Mar 10 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by Doug.H

Originally posted by Captain Morgan

Swanage (medium):


Stick to published PY.


Except if there is no published PY, then it's at the Sailing
Committee's whim.


Also, in 2009 the Laser 2000 and RS Vision were raced off the same
handicap (don't ask me what it was) to encourage "fleet" sailing.



I wouldn't say that's strictly true. If I had the Streaker this year, my PY
WOULD have been adjusted.

As has my handicap, which has been played around with to put me "mid fleet" where I belong!

Trust me Doug, if you sailed an Albacore then YOUR PY would have been adjusted

(Wait until you see what they've got planned for the tried and tested Radial PY on Saturday... hehehe...)

 

Only kidding.
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Xpletive View Drop Down
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Posts: 320 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Xpletive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 10 at 9:40pm

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Hmm let me think, now who sails a V3000 on a Laser 3k handicap modified with the new bigger rudder? And should he she or they expect their handicap to be modified accordingly I wonder.

...and, having just checked out their new CA site, the TechRep advises "If you're racing a "V"3000 - you'll soon find it's a bit quicker than an original laser, especially in medium winds when the V3000 breaks out on the plane earlier than the older heavier boats. Although the class handicap is 1032, it's polite to offer the recommended handicap reduction to 1007."

They really are very, very naughty boys.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 10 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by Xpletive

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Hmm let me think, now who sails a
V3000 on a Laser 3k handicap modified with the new bigger rudder? And
should he she or they expect their handicap to be modified accordingly I
wonder.


...and, having just checked out their new CA site, the TechRep advises
"If you're racing a "V"3000 - you'll soon find it's a bit quicker than an
original laser, especially in medium winds when the V3000 breaks out on
the plane earlier than the older heavier boats. Although the class
handicap is 1032, it's polite to offer the recommended handicap
reduction to 1007."


They really are very, very naughty boys.



Well it's going to get interesting this year now we have a 'class' of them,
even got the National Champion coming down to sort out some training,
dumb and dumberer are scratching around trying to find an old L3k to put
a seal on their legendary dominance. I shall enjoy spanking their botties
in my new 100 and will of course be watching their sail size like a hawk,
since I seem to recall the v3000 not only is lighter, has bigger foils but it
also has bigger sails. In fact one could argue it's an entirely different boat.
Some would even go as far as suggest 985 was a more appropriate
handicap.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 10 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by Captain Morgan

Originally posted by Doug.H

Originally posted by Captain Morgan


Swanage (medium):


Stick to published PY.


Except if there is no published PY, then it's at the Sailing
Committee's whim.


Also, in 2009 the Laser 2000 and RS Vision were raced off the same
handicap (don't ask me what it was) to encourage "fleet" sailing.


I wouldn't say that's strictly true. If I had the Streaker this
year, my PY WOULD have been adjusted.


As has my handicap, which has been played around with to put me
"mid fleet" where I belong!


Trust me Doug, if you sailed an Albacore then YOUR PY would have
been adjusted


(Wait until you see what they've got planned for the tried and
tested Radial PY on Saturday... hehehe...)


 


Only kidding.



Sadly I'm RO on saturday

It's interesting though because I think actually Swanage S.C, would be a
perfect club for a full personal handicapping system. The fleets seem to
want to see each of their front runners crushed! And I think the likes of
Tim Page and Bill M who mop up their respective fleets would secretly
relish the challenge (even though they might loudly protest such a move).
In fact I think I may suggest to the committee that the pursuit race we do
actually uses a personal handicapping system.
Medway Maniac does this at Wilsonian quite successfully and if the
committee would agree, I think it would be a great addition to the
Swanage racing line up.
I'll work out the handicaps using some black box calculations (hopefully
with help from MM). It certainly would make things interesting.
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bert View Drop Down
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Posts: 584 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 10 at 12:58am

We have a un-offical mid week evening pursuit race with personal PY`s adjusted via the previous weeks position & previous PY.

This seems to attact slighty more people to sail regularly then the sunday races do & some very close racing is enjoyed by all.

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didlydon View Drop Down
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Posts: 280 		Post Options Post Options   Quote didlydon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 10 at 10:16am
Margate Yacht Club - small. Generally, we race off the std PY's - but I've had mine "adjusted" as I sail a Vareo & we only do triangle , sausage courses. it helps me a bit but I still have to be miles & many minutes ahead of things like the lasers, Miracles & Wayfarers that I sail against, to do anything useful!!
Vareo 365

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Captain Morgan View Drop Down
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Posts: 211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Captain Morgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 10 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by Doug.H


I think actually Swanage S.C, would be a
perfect club for a full personal handicapping system. The fleets seem to
want to see each of their front runners crushed! And I think the likes of
Tim Page and Bill M who mop up their respective fleets would secretly
relish the challenge (even though they might loudly protest such a move).
In fact I think I may suggest to the committee that the pursuit race we do
actually uses a personal handicapping system.
Medway Maniac does this at Wilsonian quite successfully and if the
committee would agree, I think it would be a great addition to the
Swanage racing line up.
I'll work out the handicaps using some black box calculations (hopefully
with help from MM). It certainly would make things interesting.

Yes please! 

I've thought about this for a while (especially when I read about Burghfield's foray into Personal Handicaps) and I did raise this idea at the Active Sailors Meeting back in 2008. I'll give you one guess what happened...

I'll back you all the way if you're willing to have a stab at this. I agree that SSC is ideally suited to this system (though there are other issues that we'll have to discuss). I'm fairly sure that we could get a significant handful of people to run with this. We'll chat about it this weekend.



Edited by Captain Morgan
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Hector View Drop Down
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 2:00am

Yorkshire Dales SC Medium size club - large water - windy venue.

We use PYs unadjusted.

Seems to work ok - every dog has its day - except perhaps the Lasers who despite being very good, can't often beat a well sailed Phantom or RS200. It will be interesting to see how the new PYs affect that situation.

We also do a couple of 'equalisers' where Personal handicaps are used - in a Pursuit format - often making racing very close by the finish. There was a plan to do more standard pursuits - but it rarely happened as they're more complex to set up and finishing 'on the water is hard but at a fixed point is unfair on slower boats.



Edited by Hector
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Merlinboy View Drop Down
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Posts: 3169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 7:54am
Originally posted by bert

We have a un-offical mid week evening pursuit race with personal PY`s adjusted via the previous weeks position & previous PY.

This seems to attact slighty more people to sail regularly then the sunday races do & some very close racing is enjoyed by all.

 

That sounds great fun Bert, and really what club racing should be about.

I find it interesting that it attracts more people then the Sunday racing!  Could it be that people are now getting to the stages where they can't be bothered to race at their club, if the club is unwilling/can't adjust handicaps locally?? I for one feel like this.  This maybe a reason for dwindling numbers of club sailors, there certainly seemed to be more racers at my clubs in the early 90's.
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patj View Drop Down
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Posts: 643 		Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 2:07pm

Shearwater, small puddle, small club, basically stick to PY but have two levels of personal handicap for beginners and novices which is a percentage increase on PY of something like 20% and 10% respectively. These get reduced as the individual improves.

Time is the reason midweek evening racing is more popular - family people are more ready and more able to give up an evening than a whole Sunday.



Edited by patj
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