Cirrus Icon Development

Now we have a set of North sails we will post some more interesting pics of Icon on the water.  It was rush for everyone to get a hull into a presentable state for the show and these most recent sails went up the mast for the first time only on Friday late afternoon.  We did not want to show you the earlier setup !!

Anyway until we hit the water again from later this week a few of you might like to get some idea of the rig.  The next major change will be to graft in a conventional centreboard casing to replace the gorgeous but rather daunting NS daggerboard. The current thinking is a good Merlin or Fireball type one  (anyone want to help there ?).  Anyway we thought most would want one and the overwhelming majority at the show confirmed that.  We aim to complete this in the next 2-3 weeks and after that ... well we will be running 'try an Icon' days.  After that most planned changes are minor and involve deck tooling detailing

So any suggestions from those who did find us ? - helpful ones at least ...

Rick .....

It is perfectly possible to continue to use the maximum NS length dagger in a suitably designed case if you are of a purist nature.  A foam insert is placed behind the dagger etc.  Now this may not be a production or calss racing option but we will be running comparitive testing (dagger/Centreboard) to assess the implications in this manner.

Democracy ... so who would have it !  However on this one I do agree with the great majority now.    You have to remember we have already modified the rig to considerable advantage already .... Icon will share some features with the NS14  but it is not an attempt to establish that development class here - that niche is well filled by the Nat12 and MR here already and the hull while similar will not measure to NS rules in production anyway.

Life is full of compromises - but some specification compromises still produce great classes.  You must come along and try ICON anyway - we would value your input.

Mike L.    

     

I wish you luck with your project but if you wanted to build somthing that was attractive to me then my input would be to put on a carbon mast and stick with the daggerboard.

 

 

 

Masts ....

Carbon is very nice but would be of only marginal benefit.  One of the particularly UK issues is the pursuit of ever slimmer 'stick' masts in the last few decades to reduce windage / drag.   If you do it with alloy you have to end up with relatively  thick tube walls and this makes them heavy and 'sluggish' in terms of flex responce.   So if the spec can justify the cost you go carbon. The needlaspar masts of years ago were very efficient but rather heavy. 

So if you go down the stick evolutionary line carbon makes particular sense from a weight point of view AND it does have better flex characteristics.

Wing masts - again 'better' in carbon but the advantages are much more marginal.  The wing tube is much larger which means you can go thinner wall - with carbon you cannot go quite as slight as with good alloy so the carbon weight advantage is a fair bit less.  In this situation alloy is still a very effective option and much closer to the ideal than you might think.  Remember these masts are not particularly long either.  On the flex characteristic side again the carbon advantage is less than you might thnk.  Fore and aft wing masts are intentionally stiff and the sail are designed to blade off and work with the crew controling the amount of over-rotation selected.  

Like very long daggerboards we can assume some speed advantage in going carbon but the whole point of ICON is a very cost effective and simple package that is still mightly quick.  However you might have noticed we are using a carbon boom tube - cos in our judgement the cost-benefit is easly justified.

'Carbon' is also highly variable - and the best high modulas stuff can be VERY pricey indeed.  It is simply not one material - check out the technical stuff via google sometime !   

Yes we'd go carbon automatically if it was the same price and keep it black - not just for a theoretical technical advantage but because it is still seen as 'cool'.  In Oz they are a bit more sensible and often spray it white ... cos believe me it really is better in white.

Changing the subject a bit .... a few at the show saw ICON and instantly questioned why we don't put an asymetric on it.  That would make it a lot faster than a switch to a carbon mast but again is that where we want to go with this package ?

Well we would never say never to carbon or anything else and we really are listening.  If enough want it we will do it .... I will be acting as devils advocate with the ICON group and more publically here occasionally to find out exactly what you really want in the next couple of months ! (and are prepared to buy of course).   

Mike L.     

To add some more...
I'm on record as preferring the dagger board and carbon mast route,
but:
The dagger is great but if it puts people off, is it sensible? As RS and
Rooster have found out, a centreboard is a popular option (I'm one of
the few who voted for a dagger on the 100 duringthe development
phase)
The mast may have a long chord, but it is wrong to think it is heavy or
old fashioned. It weighs less per meter than a typical stick selden or
superspar. As the 49ers have discovered, if you have a square head
you don't need/want a traditional flexy mast. The benefit of the rotation
of the long chord mast is that semi rotated (upwind) the mast is
flexible enough to cope with gusts. Fully rotated (reaching) the mast
stiffens sideways and so holds power better. Alloy masts are still fully
competitive in NS races, but carbon ones are a fraction lighter. On the
other hand carbon is not maintenance free, unlike alloy.