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Merlinboy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 8:25pm

Originally posted by Nigel_V

At my club we have just introduced a new rule. Helms of boats with more than one PY (e.g more than one rig) have to declare what there fastest configuration will be for that season and then sail using that PY even if they put the smaller rig on for stronger wind conditions. The thinking behind it was that people fit a smaller rig because on the day, they think that will give them the best result. To also give them a PY bonus seemed unfair. Equally, if someone chooses to sail with the smaller rig all season, they get the PY to go with it. This was the fairest systerm we could come up with so we will see how it goes.

That is the only 'Fair' way to do it, as i see it anyway!
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Posts: 290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Inland sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 9:30pm
At DWSC we adopted a slightly simpler approach. Your result is calculated on the faster PY unless when you sign on you declare the slower PY.

Simple
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Posts: 893 		Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 9:56pm
Urr Rich you should add that if you do choose to use the different PY (we dont want to discourage anyone from sailing in any conditions) you get a different set of results for that PY as yu would if you used a different boat.
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Nick Peters


The 2 sails are called "10.2" and "8.4". apart from looking diffent sizes, the 10.2 has a black "swoosh" near the clew and black sail numbers, and the 8.4 has a white swoosh and (we were considering) white sail numbers.


Then your race officer, finishing the first open with 10.2's and 8.4,s on the same course could say into his dictaphone: "white 104, black 107, etc". Easy for any race officer. would go in class rules etc.


what do we think?





Nick; I think the people who look after the results & the boat db's in club software will struggle with that.


We have a whole host of problems with Lasers/Radials & people switching rigs.


Perhaps you could build a subscript into the class logo; I think just having different sail number colours is OK for RS circuit events where people know the difference but for average club race officers it is a finer point that will be missed.



I'm with Rick on this one. At clubs with little fleet racing with the odd one or two boats of a given class then it will be a struggle for race officers. You have to remember that a lot of your club volunteers are often older and not in touch with existing classes. If I told half (make that 90%) of our club OODs that there were actually three different rigs for a laser each with their own handicap they'd look at me funny!!
As others have said, if the sail says RS100 then the risk is that one number will be used.

I think in reality its all going to go the way the 300 went which is one handicap regardless of weight and rig, and so why waste time getting there and just put a peg in the ground with a single trial PY and adjust it as per normal at the end of the year.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 10:29pm

I guess you could just put a big 10 in the corner of the big sail and an 8 in the corner of the other?
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or A or B - simples
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Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 10:38pm

Originally posted by chrisg

Urr Rich you should add that if you do choose to use the different PY (we dont want to discourage anyone from sailing in any conditions) you get a different set of results for that PY as yu would if you used a different boat.

That is pretty much how it works at our club with the different laser rigs (rightly or wrongly).

I predominantly sail a full rig, but on occasions when wind speed >F4-5, I might choose a radial rig which I can actually get upwind faster and more efficiently than the full rig with which I am overpowered, and am less likely to make an unforced error/swim downwind/gybing; They count as 2 seperate boats on the series results.

The only issue for me is, if I need one more counting result in the full rig, I am sometimes obliged to use it in order to bank a result rather than have a more 'enjoyable' sail in the radial. I certainly wouldn't mind on the odd occasion I sailed the radial, for it to count on my full rig result by applying the full rig PY (which is about a 1 minute difference over an hour race)...But could that system be used unfairly tactically?

Am I right in thinking that other boats with alternative rig sizes (i.e. RS300) could swap sizes with impunity and other (non strict OD) boats could change their mast/sail configurations..?

Certainly you cannot rely on OOD's to spot the subtle differences in rig sizes, other than to record the sail number/finish and leave the onus on the sailor to make a declaration if different PY's are applied.
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Posts: 3169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by Andymac

Originally posted by chrisg

Urr Rich you should add that if you do choose to use the different PY (we dont want to discourage anyone from sailing in any conditions) you get a different set of results for that PY as yu would if you used a different boat.

That is pretty much how it works at our club with the different laser rigs (rightly or wrongly).

I predominantly sail a full rig, but on occasions when wind speed >F4-5, I might choose a radial rig which I can actually get upwind faster and more efficiently than the full rig with which I am overpowered, and am less likely to make an unforced error/swim downwind/gybing; They count as 2 seperate boats on the series results.

The only issue for me is, if I need one more counting result in the full rig, I am sometimes obliged to use it in order to bank a result rather than have a more 'enjoyable' sail in the radial. I certainly wouldn't mind on the odd occasion I sailed the radial, for it to count on my full rig result by applying the full rig PY (which is about a 1 minute difference over an hour race)...But could that system be used unfairly tactically?

Am I right in thinking that other boats with alternative rig sizes (i.e. RS300) could swap sizes with impunity and other (non strict OD) boats could change their mast/sail configurations..?

Certainly you cannot rely on OOD's to spot the subtle differences in rig sizes, other than to record the sail number/finish and leave the onus on the sailor to make a declaration if different PY's are applied.

You can change your rig ONCE a year according to the class rules for the 300.

Thing is with the 300 its not just a different sail, but different mast section (which is BLOODY expensive) with very little difference in performance so not worth bothering with, you can also reef the 300 sail if you need to.
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Posts: 621 		Post Options Post Options   Quote asterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 11:10pm
stupid question, but can you reef a 100 sail?
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 10 at 1:21am

Originally posted by Rupert

We are exactly like that, Womble. It used to be you could only sail one boat, but we had few enough people qualifying as it was.

And so are we Womble  / Rupert.

Would be interested to know which clubs you're both from. I certainly don't think you can rely on the ood identifying an RS 100A from an RS 100B - getting the times accurately with numbers right is enough of a challenge to most.

At our club (and any other using Sailwave or similar), the sailing / results sec enters say Laser 123456 and then the PY - either Radial PY or Full rig the first time they race in a season. Then that's the PY that Laser then gets for the entire year. We also have to sign on for the days racing and for instance, the Vortexs have to put either std or Asym to denote whether they're flying a kite or not. Again however the OOD just makes sure he gets the sail number as a boat crosses the line - sailwave does the rest. Only catch is when (very rarely) there are 2 boats with same number (at our club we have RS800 1048 and Vortex 1048). Then the OOD does need to spot which is which.

If a radial uses a full rig they have to declare the bigger sail and they get the lower PY. Its really not that difficult. I don't see why the RS100 (8 or 10) would be any different.

 

 
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