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asterix View Drop Down
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Posts: 621 		Post Options Post Options   Quote asterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The RS100 Owners Thread
    Posted: 26 Feb 10 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by laser193713

I dont think you should be allowed to change sails mid event, I am not worried about the big guys all coming along on a windy event and racing the small rig but if it turns light the next day of the event then I would not be happy for them to get their big rigs out again! At least not on the same set of results!

Maybe in a couple of years I will have gained weight and skill and might be able to handle the bigger rig, perhaps I can handle it now?

I have been told that at my size i would probably be on the small rig, but what are the actual suggested weights for each rig? Or is that still to be discovered?

Hi ya

look, I am in the same position as you - faily light (78-80kgs) and with the small sail only (for now at least). 

The argument rests on a couple of things, but I assume we all want to have the same start don't we? -  I do.

Results for the big and small sailed boats can be separated after a race (into Big and Small, but with no assumption of e.g., 'gold' being better than 'silver') and the results could also be adjusted using the different PYs to see who is the overall winner in any particular race or on any particular day. 

And as long as two different and appropriate PYs are used, there shouldn't be a problem with people swapping to a big sail for the next day if the wind drops.  

Having 'combined' events in this way (i.e., all sailing together) should actually be the best way of determining what the difference between the two PY numbers should be. 

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 10 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Too early days yet David. One of the benefits for
waiting until the autumn will be a lot more
feedback on the different rigs and what's going to work best for you.
Bottom line, get
yourself as many rides on both as possible, the best judge will be
yourself, not us or RS.

I agree- no one should be allowed to change rigs mid event without race
committee
authorisation based on sound justification. If one of the other 10.2
sailors rips their sail and
by borrowing my 8.4 can go on and finish the event, even win it if they
must, then I'd hope
we're all chilled enough to let that stand. However, If they've taken a
gerber to it just to get an
advantage and drop down sail sizes or move up to their 10.2 if the wind
goes light, then
they're a dick... I'll know it, you'll know it and we'll all make sure everyone
else on here knows
it for starters... let them cheat if it's that important.   Although this is
assuming 'switch
blading' will be ruled out...

Go sailing, play fair with your rig selection and smile, your sailing an
RS100... simples


He so needs that class chairman tag...

I think we should all meet in the bar at the show and vote him in, wether
he's there or not..
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
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laser193713 View Drop Down
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Posts: 889 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 10 at 3:10pm

I agree that the fleet should sail together regardless of rig size.

I disagree that a handicap system should be used because one rig will always be favourable, causing arguments and disputes. Not to mention the usual "you only won the nationals because it was windy and you had the small rig and you weigh 100 kgs" which is rubbish, coming top 10 in an event can be fluke, winning it normally isnt! But comments such as this still arise and from the outsiders point of view it makes the class look unstable. Best to avoid that I would say!

I disagree that changing rig from day to day without scoring your points in the results for the other rig. In other words if you changed down a size you would score a days worth of DNCs on the big rig results sheet and get your results in the small rig results.  This then means there is no advantage in results terms from changing rigs, you may just get a more enjoyable days sailing from it. Then everyone is happy! At the end of the day who cares who wins the day in the combined fleet, afterall they are effectively 2 different classes of boat providing they have different handicaps!
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laser193713 View Drop Down
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Posts: 889 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 10 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by asterix


...and the results could also be adjusted using the different PYs to see
who is the overall winner in any particular race or on any particular day. 


And as long as two different and appropriate PYs are used, there
shouldn't be a problem with people swapping to a big sail for the next
day if the wind drops.  



And there in comes the buggeration factor... for both race committee and
competitors. The luxury of going to class events is that you're not racing
against your watch, but against other physical objects on the water,
whatever sail choice they bang up. IMO, it's only fair that if you start an
event with one sail size then you finish with it, unless there are
extenuating circumstances. That's the only fair way as it takes away
some of the 'arms race' aspect of owning two sails for differing conditions. If
we wanted a quiver to select from and piss around with between races, then
there are other classes out there already established. Sod that, I just want a cup
of tea and some cake.

I'm all for keeping it simple, if anyone wants to extract the 10.2s and 8.4s
into separate results, then fair enough, they will, that's human nature. But
as for faffing around with portsmouth yardsticks and assessing what is
fair for the different rigs when racing against each other on various
parameters of wind, sea and tide states, then b**locks, save that for the
politics of the post club racing beer analysis with Phantoms, Lasers and
RS300s on a Wednesday night.

 

THE CHAIRMAN HAS SPOKEN!

Also, I'm starting to get a bit afraid of the beer gut! I thought I was quite heavy at 80kg! Seems I will be among the lightest in the fleet now, it better stay that way!
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haroosh View Drop Down
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Posts: 521 		Post Options Post Options   Quote haroosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 10 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by laser193713

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by asterix


...and the results could also be adjusted using the different PYs to see
who is the overall winner in any particular race or on any particular day. 


And as long as two different and appropriate PYs are used, there
shouldn't be a problem with people swapping to a big sail for the next
day if the wind drops.  



And there in comes the buggeration factor... for both race committee and
competitors. The luxury of going to class events is that you're not racing
against your watch, but against other physical objects on the water,
whatever sail choice they bang up. IMO, it's only fair that if you start an
event with one sail size then you finish with it, unless there are
extenuating circumstances. That's the only fair way as it takes away
some of the 'arms race' aspect of owning two sails for differing conditions. If
we wanted a quiver to select from and piss around with between races, then
there are other classes out there already established. Sod that, I just want a cup
of tea and some cake.

I'm all for keeping it simple, if anyone wants to extract the 10.2s and 8.4s
into separate results, then fair enough, they will, that's human nature. But
as for faffing around with portsmouth yardsticks and assessing what is
fair for the different rigs when racing against each other on various
parameters of wind, sea and tide states, then b**locks, save that for the
politics of the post club racing beer analysis with Phantoms, Lasers and
RS300s on a Wednesday night.

 

THE CHAIRMAN HAS SPOKEN!

Also, I'm starting to get a bit afraid of the beer gut! I thought I was quite heavy at 80kg! Seems I will be among the lightest in the fleet now, it better stay that way!

 

Dont worry I'm l;ight than you at just below 70kg but I still like beeeeer.

8.4m sail only for sure.

Cheers,

Keith.

 
Keith
RS100 GBR 116 (XLR8)
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laser193713 View Drop Down
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Posts: 889 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 10 at 3:55pm
phew, glad im not the lightest.  Thinking about it there is only 9 points difference between the boats which is something like 36 seconds an hour, or about 30 seconds to a race, thats not a lot is it! I think I am going to be quite happy with the small rig to be honest, and then use those 9 points to my advantage in handicap racing provided I sail the same speed with both rigs it can only be a good thing can't it?
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haroosh View Drop Down
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Posts: 521 		Post Options Post Options   Quote haroosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 10 at 4:00pm

Originally posted by laser193713

phew, glad im not the lightest.  Thinking about it there is only 9 points difference between the boats which is something like 36 seconds an hour, or about 30 seconds to a race, thats not a lot is it! I think I am going to be quite happy with the small rig to be honest, and then use those 9 points to my advantage in handicap racing provided I sail the same speed with both rigs it can only be a good thing can't it?

In my case the big rig was never an option. We will just have to work hard keeping with the bigger guys upwind then hopefully make up the places downhill! Thats my hope anyway.

Its going to be really interesting to see how wide the competitive weight range is over varied conditions. Just might need to wear a few more jumpers when its honking.....

Cheers, Keith.
Keith
RS100 GBR 116 (XLR8)
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laser193713 View Drop Down
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Posts: 889 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 10 at 4:10pm

I'm hoping being young, tall and a laser sailor should make me fairly quick upwind, I dont think I need a lot more than 8m of sail upwind really, you start hiking at about 10 knots in a laser and its hardly worth sailing in less than that much wind in my opinion! I dont think the sail area should make a lot of difference, the bigger rigs will have more drag once the smaller rigs are powered up and at the end of the day going the right way up the beat is probably more important than anything.  They say that 80% of the race is in the start too, so only time will tell I guess!

Perhaps if we add a box on the entry forms at the nationals for height and weight then someone somewhere could put together a table of the top ten from each rig to see what the real weight range is? That would be the best way to work it out I think...
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ChrisC View Drop Down
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Posts: 169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 10 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by laser193713

I'm hoping being young, tall and a laser sailor
should make me fairly quick upwind..



But it might also mean you are an inexperienced, clumsy, toy boat sailor !

Probably not though !
Not now Kato (you fewl) !

RS100 421 (8.4)
Ex - Vortex Assymetric 1090 and 1208
Ex - 49er NZL142 (crew)
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asterix View Drop Down
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Posts: 621 		Post Options Post Options   Quote asterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 10 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

 

I just want a cup of tea and some cake.

I'm all for keeping it simple,

OK mate - I agree with that !

Have a good weekend:-)



Edited by asterix
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