Cirrus Icon Development

Originally posted by Skiffybob Sounds a bit confused to me. Surely most people wanting non-kite boats will be sailing on small gravel pits with "round the cans" courses. These people will want centreboards and swing-up rudders. Put a kite on a boat, and you're immediately aiming more at coastal sailing and those sailing on bigger pieces of water, and these people will prefer daggerboards because they won't be worried about grounding. Strikes me that the NS will make a cracking "small pond" boat, being light and manouverable, and would offer a good alternative to an N12 that would carry a bit more weight. Does that make sense?

You´re right Bob. I was just explaining that a kite probably won´t work
wonders on an NS14 hull.

As one of the few to have sailed an NS14 (and of the same hull type as the Icon is based on), this is my exoerience.

The hull is definitely faster than a tasar hull - in all wind strengths.  It is like comparing a 1970's N12 with Dead Cat Bounce or a Paradigm.  It is self draining, doesn't have a traveller, is more comfortable and lighter.  

The standard NS14 is a great boat, but its sail area makes its target weight similar to a N12, and therefore is will struggle to establish itself here even though, in my opinion, it is a better boat in many ways.  Also being a development class, it makes it difficult for a manufacturer to take on the extra risk that involves. 

The NS also likes a bit of wind. With bigger (but still only RS200 sized) sails the Icon should perform well in light wind too, and carry weight better than a N12.  It is currently very similar to the Flight 4.3 that Landenberger developed, and Landy has given his full backing and support to the Icon, which will be a step on again.  For info, Landy reckons the Flight can hold 505s around a course in less than 12kts, but then he is a Tornado silver medallist and Moth world champ, so skill factor probably plays a part too!  The Icon will definitely have a PY sub 1000 IMO.

 

One of the problems we experienced was lack of weight

Only useful in steamrollers .... (and crew upwind in some conditions)  Apologies but we will not be fighting to build weight into Icon  !!!!   I for one am very happy if the GP etc occasionaly prosper - every er ....'one' has its day ..... they have to watch from way off for the vast majority of the time.

And besides 'old solutions' need challenging occasionally - the UK and Australia are arguably some of the most innovative parts of the dinghy world.  People have open minds, take a few risks and ultimately make up their own decisions - and of course there will be crossover of ideas and designs.   I don't drive a 60's mini today either - great that they were.

The Icon concept is very much 'work in progress' still but there is a lot of support and the final spec is not far off.   The use of the modern NS derived hull shape is only part of the package, and it addresses the limitations of earlier NS derivatives  - and the rest is nearly there as well.   We do have the freedom of course to go beyond the NS rule set and are trying other ideas as well -  raided from other development and non development classes.  The potential owners will have a lot of influence and we aim to set up a steering group at the Dinghy Show.   By then we will make a demo boat available for trade press as well as these pioneers to try. 

Mike L. (aka Cirrus Raceboats)



  

I'll be very interested to see what you do with the rig. There has been a lot of development put into NS rigs and so I wouldn't take it as a given that the first iteration of a different rig type (if you move away from rotating wings) will be quick out of the blocks. That said, I hope you do come up with something innovative. NS's are going through and extended tough time in Aus and it might be helpful to have some technical distractions to move the focus away from what appear to be personal issues.

I'm not sure I agree about the comments about the NS being short on sail though. Yes the area is smaller than on many similar boats but because of the flexibility in its configuration and the use of wing masts it is easy to get the boats powered up in light breezes. Not only that but they are also very quick in drifters because of the low surface area and the very low drag.

I can't see this boat carrying weight as well as a Tasar does.  You can't just take a lightweights boat, make the hull lighter, put a big rig on it and hope it carries weight, the hull's bouyancy and volume are still the same.  If you were doing this with a new hull, (similar proportions, but perhaps 15' and and a bit wider, more bouyancy) then your project might make some sense to me.  I'm afraid I just see it damaging the Tasar fleet, and killing off any hopes of NS14 getting a foothold in the UK.