PY Numbers (again)

Having loads of boats showing as faster than the line doesn't show that the PY's are wrong, as someone said earlier, but that there are so many variables in dinghy design that it is pretty much impossible to set up a calculation which gives boat speed. This is why yardsticks, not measured handicaps, are used in the first place.

It is an interesting exercise, but I really don't think too much about the speed of a boat (even the Phantom) can be read from it.

Even bigger its still illegible - and same if printed!

I know its only a theoretical graph, but its still interesting. I know nothing about stats, but shouldn't there be as many above the line as below it?

Anyone care to comment on my theory that the Laser has a poor yardstick? I've heard that as a primary number its 'set in stone'. I dont see how thats right - if the relative performance changes surely the number should change?

Originally posted by Hector Anyone care to comment on my theory that the Laser has a poor yardstick? I've heard that as a primary number its 'set in stone'. I dont see how thats right - if the relative performance changes surely the number should change?

No it doesn't have a poor PY it is just that in most conditions there are boats that will perform better to their PY than a Laser. The SMODs by definition evolve and don't develop so the "standard" conditions are where the development classes shine.

 F6+ (on a pond) and a Laser is a good handicap boat to be in. In those conditions a capsize will kill most boats but in a Laser its an occupational hazard (normally) easily dealt with.

IMHO if it does get very windy the 4.7 seems to me to have a very good boat/rig combination.

Think it was lost on most Charlie, suggest you use an emotion so people have a clue!

My tuppenceworth is that the phant, as a fairly developed boat has an easy time of it, and if it was as far to the left of the line as even the laser or something like that then it'd be sailing off 1015 or 1020.
It'd be fair to say that, short of a Thames A Rater, there aren't any boats that overperform as well in the light as a phant, for a variety of reasons. The flipside of that coin is that even a really great phant sailor will get his (considerable) arse felt at a decent quality mixed fleet handicap race in breeze. I reckon if last BM was 20kts, even the bestr phantom would have done well to finish in the top 3rd, as all the fireballs and 420s romp into the distance.
Horses for courses. You pays your money, you takes your choice. Game of 2 halves. I could go on..
I reckon short of getting world class olympic guys in similar classes to sail them against the olympic class in question in a variety of conditions and rigorously comparing times around a course then this merrygoround will always go round. Only way of getting anything like rigor with such an inherently empirical system. Jim C's is absolutely right that it would be almost impossible to improve the PY system. Just keep on sending inn the returns and the PYs will find a level.
P.S.The laser is fairly harshly handicapped because almost every club has a few decent laser sailors, and probably has for 30 years, so tghe handicap data is very mature. It doesn't really excel in any weather on handicap because the rig is so crap in the light. 7 to 11 kts would be the least onerous conditions for a laser onn hcap.