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Devotti Single Hander

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Devotti Single Hander
    Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 9:15pm
I'm not miserable..

I might be old(ish)

But I'm happy to enlighten young minds..

Especially when they're being bullsh*tted to..

Just think of me as a handy substitute for this...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 9:03pm

disagree.

With the kite up its 26 square metres of sail area.

Come and have a proper conversation when the mighty GRF can handle a 26 square metre rig with his bare hands.

lighten up, listen a bit, chill out, and stop being such a complete and utter miserable old sod.

 

Originally posted by G.R.F.

No.. what none of you grasp, is that we've been learning how and dealing
with Mast Bends and Luff tube mismatch to achieve sail shape up and
down wind for thirty years.

Have forgotten more about sail design than clearly the simpleton that
built that rig will ever know.

As an efficient device for dealing with a range of conditions, given the
level of sophistication the other control features of the hull potentially
bring to bear, it is quite frankly a joke.

For an expensive boat - its a cheap rig.

Oh yes and concept of masts that bend to depower?

1989 was the last year that was tried (called flex top) and went out during
the early nineties, with the advent of progressive twist, and controlled by
downhaul.

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 8:59pm
Let me just explain why a flex top, or bendy mast isn't good.

It's for the same reason sailing upright is good rather than heeling.

Only worse in a way.

Heeling doesn't distort and destroy the foil, which disturbs the laminar
flow (look it up)

Unless the sail is cut so the leech tightens when the mast bends off to
leeward which clearly that sail isn't. (Old test of flextop windsurf rigs in
late eighties, pull downhaul, leech goes all floppy, lay on ground stand on
mast tip, leech tightens.

That mast is bending every which way. no way can it remain efficient.

Sorry if you think it is you're just plain deluded..

Edit come to think of it didn't I read somewhere they're already working
on another rig? I wonder why...

Edited by G.R.F.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 8:47pm
No.. what none of you grasp, is that we've been learning how and dealing
with Mast Bends and Luff tube mismatch to achieve sail shape up and
down wind for thirty years.

Have forgotten more about sail design than clearly the simpleton that
built that rig will ever know.

As an efficient device for dealing with a range of conditions, given the
level of sophistication the other control features of the hull potentially
bring to bear, it is quite frankly a joke.

For an expensive boat - its a cheap rig.

Oh yes and concept of masts that bend to depower?

1989 was the last year that was tried (called flex top) and went out during
the early nineties, with the advent of progressive twist, and controlled by
downhaul.



Edited by G.R.F.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 8:35pm

The point is when the wind gets up and down you windsurfers have to keep going out to buy more sails.

This is a one design boat, just like the Halo and others that try to take ALL things into consideration, not expect you to go out and buy new equipment to cope with the conditions.

get it??

Nahh probably not.

 

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Originally posted by timg

(sigh)....


The reason why the mast bends like that is to cope with the huge
mainsail.
If you're gonna have a big main and the wind gets up you need it to
spill off.

You (GRF) will find this out when you sail your 100, if / when you get
it.
With the stays you will find more support, but then that's why you will
have less mainsail area to worry about.
The beauty of this main and mast is that you can use the power, right
up to the moment that you need to start loosing it, as opposed to having
a finite power that you could probably do with having more of, in certain
conditions.
So the next good thing about it....which to be fair, being a windsurfer
you are going to have to start learning.... is the shape of the mainsail
compared to the kite, it's very important to get the slot right (the gap
between the mainsail and the kite).
If you look carefully you will see that when the mast bends like that
(cos it was made in bendy street arizona) you get the mainsail taking the
same shape as the kite, hence creating the best lift out of both sails.
And there you have it....simple.
Looks different, but you know what??? It really works.




Sighs? Ha I guess I should forgive you being just a dingy sailor stuck in
the time warp.

Here's the news from Planet Unstayed rig where we hold up 12 mtr sails
with our bare hands..

The sail gets cut to deal with it RATHER THAN have a cheap bendy
liquorice stick.

So the mast bends off so you have to put up another sail then is that the
logic? doh. Kind of plays to Mike Lyons HALO logic doesn't it, like what's
the point?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 8:31pm
Grf, you might like to glance at the mast foot of your tea tray, it's a
pivot, unlike the fixed one in your alto. Different rig, different
requirement.
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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 8:31pm
Grumpfh I think your handicap here in understanding what is going on is because you come from a windsurfing background and have never had to consider segmented wing theory, as you have only ever had to deal with a single lifting surface at a time.  Both sails have an effect on eachother.  I am not going to recite chapter and verse on it here.  I will however suggest you read one of two books: Elements of Yacht Design by Norman L. Skene, and The Symmetry of Sailing by Ross Garrett, neither of which is a text book by any streach, and are simply interesting reads.  Both explain the basic theory in laymans terms.  I can lend you both of these, and hopefully you'll come back and understand what you are missing which has lead you to your mistake. 
FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 8:30pm

Originally posted by Phil eltringham

I figured it would be something like that, just caught me out at how much there was, makes sense now.  The sealed mast is a good move, especially on a single hander, it just makes life the little bit easier.  I guess the trade off is not having the option to only replace half the mast if you break it - swings and roundabouts.  The rig looks really good, although I think if it had been me in there I'd have been a bit more conservative and had the main sheeted in a touch more

Well you are correct about that, however I had approx 10 mins previous to the piccy just been punished for having too much mainsheet on, so I let it off a bit more than I should have.....practice makes perfect.

check out the piccy of the sealed mast working properly....i am 89kgs on the board.

Tim

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 8:27pm
Not sure how GRF still can't grasp the concept of a carbon mast that
bends off to deposed.

The actual odd Bit about this rig is the inversion, but if it works...it
works :-)
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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 8:22pm
I figured it would be something like that, just caught me out at how much there was, makes sense now.  The sealed mast is a good move, especially on a single hander, it just makes life the little bit easier.  I guess the trade off is not having the option to only replace half the mast if you break it - swings and roundabouts.  The rig looks really good, although I think if it had been me in there I'd have been a bit more conservative and had the main sheeted in a touch more
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