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PY Numbers (again)

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    Posted: 12 Oct 09 at 3:35pm

Originally posted by Merlinboy

Sailing club Bar rumors are that the Phantom is going to get a serious drop in PY this year, has anyone else heard this or should i ignore it?  If they did drop it do you think it would have much effect on the fleet size?  I often wonder if part of the success of the Phantom in recent years was the fact it is a Bandit round small gravel pit type clubs of which there are loads?

We have changed the number to 1030 which seems a lot fairer altough 2 or our club regulars recently attended the nationals and scored 8th and 11th out of 60+ boats.

Hunts is a small shifty gravel pit. The real advantag the Phantom has is the way it planes so early and accelerates quickly. It will pose the question of what we do with the 'classic' Phantoms that we have that currently use 1043.

We decided on 1030 as a medium number as a trial (agreed by the fleet itself). Some wanted faster, some wanted slower. On the whole it works well, it has made the boat beatable by sailors of comparible ability in other classes across a range of conditions (we all know each boat has its favoured conditions).

We did a PY analysis on our results and the leading Phantom (almost always the same person) had sailed down as low as 980 on occasions whereas the last boat (which was a 'classic' boat i.e. non-epoxy, tin rig) was more like 1130 or so.

I was hoping for great things from SailRacer this year but sadly it all seems to have come to nothing so far.....

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Merlinboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 09 at 3:44pm
1030 seems to be what everyone is expecting the PY to drop to.  I was hoping 1000, but it gives me more of a chance!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Inland sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 09 at 6:07pm
It would seem there is some sensitivity with in the Phantom fleet ...

From the Phantom open at Chew Valley report :-
'tends to show that 1043 was not out of place in the handicap system.'


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Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 09 at 6:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 09 at 8:11pm

Yet 3 of the top 4 at the Chew open day were Phantoms, beating the reigning RS700 national champ, the current Laser Grand Master champ and the club champ.

Phantoms sail off 1010 at Chew normally...



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 09 at 9:25pm

The phantom has come a long way very quickly in recent years. It's gone from being overpowered and uncontrollable in winds above a force 3 to being thoroughly sailable across the wind range. Of all the classes that have gone carbon it's probably benefitted the most.

I think it'll settle at about 1020 in a few years.



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AlexM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 09 at 9:35pm

And it seems very popular with all the good guys...

This years Nats

1st. Charlie Cumley (Solo Champ)

2nd Andy Couch (Ex Phantom Champ)

3rs Nick Craig (Everything Champ)

4th Wil Gulliver (Albacore Champ)

7th Simon Hawkes (Chew Valley Open Winner)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 09 at 9:51pm
Alex i seem to remember 15 years ago the phantom was a dying class, would those big names now be sailing them if there weren't big fleets and the boat was still wooden with a tin rig?  There is no arguement with most Phantom sailors that the handicap for the boat is wrong!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 09 at 9:58pm
I'm not saying the handicap is right.... i too think it should be more like 1030.  Just pointing out that there's a high standard at the moment ( bit like in the other thread about big fleet sizes)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 09 at 10:18pm
Absolutly right the Phantom fleet now has a fantastic standard, I dont even think Jim Hunt was at the nationals this year and he isnt a bad sailor either.  I really rate the boat and the characters in the fleet.  Unfortunately these rock star sailors make the boat seem like more of a bandit!!
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