Saftey Boat's & prop Guards |
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 Topic: Saftey Boat's & prop GuardsPosted: 05 Oct 09 at 11:29am |
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I think you have defined a small but important part of the problem allthough the phrase "utterly useless" is a bit harsh, maybe replace with "not as good as he thinks he is". In my experience a significant proportion of sailors believe their skill level to be much higher than it actually is....challenging those beliefs would be an affront to their perceived skill level. Anyway here's a link with loads of info on prop guards. There are people still working on improving the these guards but I think they are flogging a dead horse. |
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Posted: 05 Oct 09 at 10:54am |
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How many incidents of sailors being mangled by safety boat props have there been? Do the RYA keep records of this sort of thing? Whilst the thought of being caught by a prop is very unpleasant, if there has never been an accident of this sort perhaps prop gaurds are solving a problem that doesn't exist. Or perhaps they are saving 50 left feet a year. It would be nice to think that someone knows... The nearest I have come is having a Topper sail shredded by a well-meaning, but overly eager to help, safety boat at Grafham. I guess the safety crew at Grafham are pro's, even 20 years ago? Which goes to show, having a certificate doesn't guarentee to make you safer. |
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Phat Bouy
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Joined: 15 Jun 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 168 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 09 at 10:24pm |
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Earlier points (my 2p worth) - Jet engine suck up water and squeeze it out a small nozzle, if you go into shallow water you can suck up gravel, weed, poly bags etc and that can get very, very expensive.
Prop rings are a compromise and IMHO should be considered in a similar light to a prop-guard. What needs to be considered is why PGs are considered necessary. If it is purely on safety grounds then it would mean that the "safety committee" implies that the SB helm is utterly useless. Most SB crews who are doing their duty (two or more) feel very nervous through lack of experience and probably sigh, hoping that nothing nasty happens on their shift. Grafham Water have a good online Safety Boat guide with reminders of various techniques. Maybe the RYA would agree to a copy of their new DvD go be posted on club websites so that SB crews can swot up before their duty to remind themselves of some of the techniques and considerations before their epic adventures. On a final note: the RYA themselves do not recommend the fitting or use of prop-guards on safety/rescue boats. Edited by Phat Bouy |
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Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
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Posted: 04 Oct 09 at 9:26pm |
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Certainly not, I apologise if that's how it seemed. the pontificating old f*rt(s) seems to reside at most clubs. I have even seen him at the top club in the country, he thinks he is doing a brilliant job and nobody can tell him otherwise. He will inevitably be doing safety boat twice or more a year and he is bloody dangerous. That aside, I agree that there will never be a substiute for skill and experience. I have done the power boat and safety boat courses as we all have, I then do my duties 2 or 3 times a year (as most members do) I reckon in 15 yrs time I will be sufficiently experienced. I have watched people who use ribs on an almost daily basis cock things up. I have watched RNLI ribs cock things up. Fortunately only damaging props and gearboxes. The RNLI ribs have to cover long dictances quickly, Your average safety boat has to cover yards so a slight drop in performance is not so critical. Props are fatal and it is time a techy answer was found. In an ideal world I agree with you on all your points. Every safety boat crew should have all the training going and be very skilled/experienced an expert in fact.....................but that situation doesn't exist at most clubs. What are ring props like safety wise?
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Phat Bouy
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Joined: 15 Jun 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 168 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 09 at 6:06pm |
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I'm not sure who the "pontificating old fart" is you refer to so I will assume you mean me.
The OP asked for opinions on the fitting of prop guards. The reality is that many of the PB helms/crew at sailing events/clubs are themselves sailors and happen to end up in a SB with or without "adequate" training. As so many of you already knew this I felt no need to explain this to you. Prop-guards can be beneficial in the right situations, eg, the Manitea (?sp) are submerged in the water and do not give any inication of their presence so are easy to hit and mangle. That would be a good decision. The last sentence of previous post illustrates my point about the well intentioned panacea. So to be perfectly clear - there is no substitute for the proper and correct techniques for PB handling. Just pray that you get a good instructor and you will not know that until you get more experience. And that applies whether or not you have a prop-guard fitted. And if you are still reading this far, do your own research. Ask your local RNLI inshore helm what they think about PGs. Ask the RN guys or any professional what they think about killcords  . Then ask yourself! |
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Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
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zailor
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 10 May 09 Location: Penparc Online Status: Offline Posts: 249 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 6:46pm |
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Well our saftey boat instructor's opinion was the driver ought to be good enough to keep the spinning prop of death away from people and you turn the thing off when around people anyway.
All our saftey crew's have PB level 2 or fastey boat and they do it every other weekend to they have enough time on the water. We are actually for the new year planning "disaster days" where a group of indipendant sailors have a really crap day and the saftey boats get to fix it. (note: the sailors wont actually be wrapping themselves in rigging just pretending) so we can practice saftey boat stuff. We just had our outboard wrecked (shalow bottom+ rocks+ full speed, you do the maths) prop guard was, well gone so I dont think its going back. |
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G.R.F.
Really should get out more 
Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 5:52pm |
Lucky for you, you should listen to him, being by definition a dinghy waller therefore in possession of only partial knowledge of all things maritime yet convinced otherwise.. Maybe he's even got ten years of offshore powerboat racing experience as well.. And knows that turning an out board motor (as dicated by the RYA Powerboat safety course) off in any situation, never mind near a lee shore and in attendance to a rescue situation is stupid since likely as not the plugs get oiled on two strokes and on occasion can refuse to fire up especially if a tad warm, or following periods of near idle use... |
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Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 1:44pm |
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On the face of it a very wise and sensible answer Phat Bouy but you ignore reality. As seabadger points out the skill level at most clubs is varied from the minority "skilled" helms to the majority "not experienced enough" helms. Add to that the most dangerous element of all, pontificating old f*rts who think they know what their doing (seems to be high proportion of these in our sport). Anything that reduces the risk of being "blended" seems a good idea. Edit....... I'm not a powerboat freak so know little about available technology. Anyone know anything about water jet outboards. Are they more expensive? Safer? economic?
Edited by GK.LaserII |
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radixon
Really should get out more
Joined: 27 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2407 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 10:42am |
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Id say better training and experience are more important than fitting them.
We have them on the centre boats, Ok power loss may be there but I believe it is more piece of mind IF something happened. I have had to remove a sail from a prop guarded engine after the sail was removed but then propped wrapped itself. Interesting tow that one by another safety boat! |
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A Seabadger
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Joined: 11 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 222 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 8:06am |
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We have prop guards fitted at our club. We are a club run by members for members. Although all those doing safety boat duties have thier RYA level 2 each person only does 2-3 duties a year, as a result many people haven't a lot of experience and compitence levels vairy hugely. However we sail on a small pond so our boats aren't required to cover lond distances at speed.
I guess as mentioned above it's each situation on it's own merits. |
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I don't suffer from insanity...I enjoy every moment of it.
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