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When to tack

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    Posted: 27 Aug 09 at 7:08pm
By my uderstanding of how the actual protest committee decision works, if
there are no witnesses to give further insight, they are left with only the
facts. The only fact they know to be true is that one boat is on starboard and
one boat was on port. A tack occured by the port boat. The timing of the
tack is a difference of opinion between the starboard boat the the port boat
tacker. Opinion isn't fact therefore they're only left with Starboard boat, port
boat, something happened.... Original starboard boat wins the protest.

I hasten to add, I've never been on a protest committee and so have no
experience of the decision making process.
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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 09 at 7:26pm
Port tack boat must keep clear (rule 10)

When the port tack boat passes beyond head to wind she must keep clear until she is on a close-hauled course.

If, when she  reaches a close hauled course she is clear ahead, overlapped to leeward or is crossing another port tack boat she has acquired a new right of way. Rule 15 applies and she must give give way boat room to keep clear.

In this case, the oiginal starboard tack boat is right of way boat UNTIL port boat reaches a close hauled course, and ONLY then is she obliged to take any action to keep clear. She has no obligation to anticipate that ex-port tack boat is going to acquire ROW, and she may sail her own course untl she becomes keep clear boat. Starboard  boat must then be given room to keep clear.

A umpire following port tack boat would say (explanations in brackets):
"Port give... luffing...tacking (has passed beyond head to wind)...Complete (close hauled course)...overlapped on completion (no rule 17 luffing restrictions) or...clear on completion (clear ahead rule 12 applies)... must give room...has given room or... did not give room.

Most people forget about rule 15. Many apprentice match racers, for instance, get upset until they realise that rules 15 and 16 are very frequently invoked rules

One other point - ISAF Case 50 means that a boat is not keeping clear, or has not given room, if the right of way boat, or the boat entitled to room, has a genuine and reasonable apprehension of a collision - no need to ram the offending boat.

Gordon

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 09 at 10:59pm

Your port tacker is still using the old rules, from about 12 years ago.  It was a legitimate move back then but no longer is.  I bet he's old enough to have been racing back then and thinks he knows the rules. 

Here's a way to recognise if he's up-to-date.  If he calls "water" at the mark it confirms he's out-of-date - the modern term is "room".

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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser4000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 7:47am
Originally posted by redback

Your port tacker is still using the old rules, from about 12 years ago.  It was a legitimate move back then but no longer is.  I bet he's old enough to have been racing back then and thinks he knows the rules. 

Here's a way to recognise if he's up-to-date.  If he calls "water" at the mark it confirms he's out-of-date - the modern term is "room".



Nah that's just semantics, some people still call for water even now...

If he calls mast abeam though....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 8:03am
Neither "water" nor "room" are required hails. The boat entitled to mark room is not required to hail to claim her rights, although nothing prevents her doing so.

It could be interesting to test rules knowlege in a club - run a rules test at a social evening , AGM, or at the club regatta. I once started a rules evening by asking everyone to rate teir rules knowledge on a scale of 1 to 10. People were honest, and average score was about 2.5! The erudute lecture on the changes to rule 8 was instantly scrapped and we embarked on a run through of the rules from the beginning of the book.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 09 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by JimC

More to the point, if the rest of you take turns at getting him in the protest room every week, win or lose, he'll soon be motivated to sail in a more gentlemanly fashion.


YES YES YES!!  DO DO DO please protest him or her!!!!

Also if this person tends to do this tactic ontop of less experienced sailors then I would actually protest them on rule 2, being bad sportsmanship,  as well as rules 10, 13 andc 15
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 09 at 12:28pm
Remember that the race committee or the protest committee may also proest a boat. This may be the diplomatic way to deal with such a repeat offender. In htis way the race officials are demonstrating that they are the guarantors of fair racing.

I have only done this once, when I observed an incident from a Jury boat. It was the offending boat that protested, and after much discussion with the other race officials who observed the incident we decided that I should protest in order to ensure that the protest went ahead.

You could also invite a qualifed umpire or judge to spend a day on the water and flag incidents. This can often stimulate a lively debate about the rules - leave time for a debriefing after sailing.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ericdonks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 09 at 4:44pm
Well gents last weekend while fleet racing our Tempest with five other boats, coming from the back after a bad start, we meet our late tacker while on starboard, he had seen us some way back.
My crew was about to hail when I told him not to, and yes he tacked late I did not move up to wind or to leeward just kept my course collision occured, while he was going through the tack, his boom had not completely gone over to the other tack sails were not full.
He was full of anger, but no cries of protest, but I aknowledge I'm equally to blame as I did not avoid collision, but I have now made my point.
Next time I avoid collision and protest, I am very clear in my head with the help from you guy's where this situation needs to go.
Incidently we got through the fleet to finish second only half boat length in it at the end.
ged
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 09 at 4:58pm

Originally posted by ericdonks

Well gents last weekend while fleet racing our Tempest with five other boats, coming from the back after a bad start, we meet our late tacker while on starboard, he had seen us some way back.
My crew was about to hail when I told him not to, and yes he tacked late I did not move up to wind or to leeward just kept my course collision occured, while he was going through the tack, his boom had not completely gone over to the other tack sails were not full.
He was full of anger, but no cries of protest, but I aknowledge I'm equally to blame as I did not avoid collision, but I have now made my point.
Next time I avoid collision and protest, I am very clear in my head with the help from you guy's where this situation needs to go.
Incidently we got through the fleet to finish second only half boat length in it at the end.

Just one thing you need to be aware of. The boat only needs to be on a close hauled course on the new tack, the sails to do need to be set it is the course of the boat that is important.

As for the contact, you are lucky he did not protest you for an avoidable collision (he would probably have got chucked himself as well).

My opinion is that he will still do this to people until he is in the protest room...

Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 09 at 7:46pm
The tacking boat must keep clear until she is on a close hauled course (rule 13). If she then acquires right of way she must give you room to keep clear (rule 15). You do not have to take any avoiding action (unless it is to avoid contact) and can sail your course until boat is on close-hauled course. Then and only then mus ou start to change course if this is necessary to keep clear.

In the incident described the other boat should have taken a penalty, you should have protested. You did  not avoid contact and thus broke rule 14. If there was any damage to either boat then you could, and should, also have taken a penalty.

In some ways the incident is a step backwards - there are now 2 boats not 1 breaking the rules and still noone is either taking a penalty or protesting! Protest and be done with it.

Better still get a competent umpire out on the water for a day. I suspect that your late taker is not the only sailor on the water who needs some practical wok on the rules.

Gordon

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