Proposed IRC Rule changes |
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Juggs ![]() Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 Sep 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 24 Oct 11 at 2:40pm |
If you carry a conventional pole its length is related to J and will carry a penalty if it goes beyond an increase of around 8%. But if you put a bow sprit on and then fly a monster of an A sail the ratio of penalty is not perceived by the rule in the same way and the increase in your rating is proportionally much less.
A conventional pole requires another crew member with a degree of experience but it does mean that everyone has a job to do rather than just sitting on the side getting cold and wet. Looking at the way racing rules are developing which encourage symetrical sails the spinnaker pole will be joining the IOR rule and the Dodo as a historical memory. Queue the following argument! |
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blueboy ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 27 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 512 |
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I couldn't agree less. IRC is for high level club racing to sub-grand-prix level. It isn't for club-level owners taking their first steps into racing. For that, there is PY and the numerous other club yacht handicapping systems out there. That's precisely why many yacht clubs run PY and IRC divisions. One size does not fit all. |
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Quagers ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 279 |
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laser193713 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 13 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 889 |
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Can you also indicate where in the 2012 proposed rule changes there is anything about spinnaker poles or bowsprits?!
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laser193713 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 13 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 889 |
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Your argument doesnt stand up at all! By restricting boats from carrying both a pole and a sprit they make it cheaper for the majority of boats which only have one or the other. As for making gybing easier yes you do need to rig some kind of tack line if you a gybing A sails with a pole but you dont need a sprit for this, we simply tack our kites down to the jib tack ring at the base of the forestay which has a block on it for this purpose. That works just fine, but gybing the A sail is a pig anyway in any breeze and gybing an S is much simpler in all winds, so why would you bother with the A sails with a beginner crew?
What is the boat out of interest? Did it always have A sails or just S sails to begin with? |
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mole ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 02 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 43 |
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@laser193713
I have to admit we were lucky with costs. The kite was from ebay...no surprise. There were a lot of ex-Momentum kites on there last autumn, at a fraction of there new cost, so we bagged a bargain. Our sprit was again from ebay, a piece of 5mm wall 6065 grade alloy tube. One of our crew is a machinist and I was an aircraft fitter in a previous life, so considerable saving on parts and labour. All the other parts we had including tack line so a minimal cost. One of the practical reasons for the change is the configuration of our pulpit. Any attempt to tack down an assy just forward of the jib tack would have resulted in a pulpit departing at a rapid rate of knots. So for us it was a relatively cost effective change that gave us a closer chance of competing with the experienced crews. cheers Mole
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flaming ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 04 Oct 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 41 |
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Can you post the part of the rule changes that you refer to? I had a quick look, but couldn't see it.
But I have to say, I don't agree with you. IRC racing has at its core a concept of "reducing unnecessary cost". We have a perfectly good symmetrical spinnaker setup, but were starting to think of adding a small sprit and an A-sail, as it was going to be rating "free". Certainly wouldn't have been cost free.
Your 1st post seems to indicate that you are relatively new to yacht racing, and training up new crew. Which is highly commendable. However, I firstly don't buy the argument that gybing using a sprit, then putting it back on a pole is easier - that just sounds like you're using a-sails and adding an unnecessary complication. have you thought about ditching the pole and just going for the A-sails? that should get you a drop in the rating.
Also, no one has stopped you coming out racing with your setup. Just, perhaps, impacted on your chances of winning. If you're honest though, how much difference will it really make? Whenever someone moans about their handicap, an interesting thing to do is to take their last 5 races and say "How much would your handicap have to change so that you went up or down 1 place?" And "how much would your handicap have to change for you to have won?"
Don't forget that by having your setup, versus a standard setup, there will be situations where your boat is materially faster. And IRC rates the boat, not the crew.
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laser193713 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 13 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 889 |
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How on earth did you get a bowsprit and kite for under a grand!? we got a quote of 4500 for a new kite alone on the j122 which wasnt cheap but i dont believe we could have got close to a grand!
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mole ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 02 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 43 |
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The cost argument doesn't add up in our case. We fitted a sprit and a brand new assymetric for less than £1000 on a 37ft boat.
As for racing for in-experienced crew, this is exactly what the IRC rules preclude, owners willing to take less experienced crews and train them for competitive IRC racing. At what point does IRC ratings allow for that? So owners who can find away to introduce crews to spinnaker handling in a series of steps has to be good. the ALL or NOTHING argument just discourages participation. But all this will be academic when there are so few IRC certificates that the rule disappears. Dinghy clubs adjust the Portsmouth Yardstick to suit local conditions and in some cases clubs introduce 'personal' handicap systems to encourage the less experienced sailor to compete against championship winning crews. IRC will only remain successful if it encourages participation, AT ALL LEVELS, not just a select few with deep wallets.
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Quagers ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 279 |
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I can see your point but if you can always choose to run with just the sprit, however at the top end allowing both with no penalty is causing a real arms race with people getting expensive retrofit bowsprits and the associated sails (Code zeros etc.) and its also massively damaging the IRC staple of 30-40ft cruiser/racers.
At the end of the day if you are racing with inexperienced crew you are unlikely to be competitive anyway, so is a small rating change really a game ender for you?
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