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Extreme 40 crash decision

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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Extreme 40 crash decision
    Posted: 16 Oct 11 at 9:19am
Well it appears Rothschild likes to push the Port Starboard and has now hole Emirates
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 11 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Love to see Big Daddy V's Giant Haystacks match racing in AC45's!

Those guys knew a bit about showmanship, and most importantly, timing!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 11 at 5:10pm
Love to see Big Daddy V's Giant Haystacks match racing in AC45's!
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 11 at 8:44am
It seems to me that the leeward boat is pinned on port tack despite being a long way ahead.
These boats are fast in a straight line but lumber through tacks.
The leeward boat presumably could not pinch up to the windward boat's track, so they are stuck on port unless they risk a collision.
Maybe they could have borne off a little to give themselves space to tack instead of trying to get up to the mark?
Maybe the chop slowed the boat through the tack more than they expected, that is a foul piece of water at some states of the tide.

Maybe crashes are part of the circus, it's probably all rigged like wrestling used to be I suspect!
Lucky no one got hurt.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 11 at 7:58am
Jeffers,

A was only clear ahead ROW boat until she passed beyond head to wind. Until she did so she was subject to rule 16.ONE, in that for any change of course she must give R room to keep clear. Once A passed beyond head to wind she became a keep clear boat (rule 13)

Rule 16.2 only applies to boats on opposite tacks when the port tack boat is keeping clear by passing astern. In this incident once a passed beyond head to wind until she reached a close hauled course she was keep clear boat (rule 13). As ROW boat R had no obligation to  keep clear of A so 16.2 does not apply. Once A reaches a close hauled course she acquires right of way but must give room to R to keep clear (rule 15). Only when A has given room, and only if:
- R was then keeping clear by passing astern of A;
and;
- A subsequently changed course

would rule 16.2 apply.

Gordon



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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 11 at 7:43am
I have not read through this thread completely nor watch the video but if A was ROW boat and decided to tack then rule 16.2 applies (Right of way boat changing course must ensure a keep clear boat does not have to alter course if they were already keeping clear).
 
I believe the rules also state that you are not required to anticiapte that another boat is going to break the rules until it is clear that they are, in this case it would appear it was too late for sufficient avoiding action to be taken. As has been pointed out a similar situation occured later on in the racing and different action was taken and no collision occured.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 11 at 6:45am
Here's another jury decision about right of way and rule 14.
 
 
The moral is, if you are keep clear boat, you must keep clear and not expect rule 14 to save you from your own mistakes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 7:59pm
I  agree with andymac

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by craiggo

Gordon,

You are of course right, A should be disqualified, but surely so should R. While R attempted to avoid the collision they chose the wrong way to avoid it and as a result a collision occured. The argument is therefore, did R do all that was possible to avoid the collision. I would argue Scooby-simons point that, they had opportunity to avoid by 1. tacking or 2. bearing away by blowing the main and leaving the jib on. In bearing away in the way they did, they put themselves into the position of causing te crash and therefore should also be scored as DSQ.
 
I would guess that having made the initial bearaway, R was preparing to duck A's stern and then tack immediately. The second attempt to bearaway by R's helmsman was under far greater pressure and a split second decision (which was the opposite action to which the trimmers were geared up to do). This was done without the coordinated effort of the trimmers. Can anyone really blame R for a less than perfect manouvere in such a circumstance. Can anyone here claim to never making a mistake in a high pressure situation? I somehow doubt it. On that basis I suggest that R's second (attempt) bearaway when it became clear that A had stalled was reasonable.
The term 'reasonable' is an entirely subjective matter, and one I feel we will never all agree on.
Unless anyone is suggesting that R deliberately caused an avoidable crash, I can't see any more mileage in criticising R's actions. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 6:58pm
Gordon,

You are of course right, A should be disqualified, but surely so should R. While R attempted to avoid the collision they chose the wrong way to avoid it and as a result a collision occured. The argument is therefore, did R do all that was possible to avoid the collision. I would argue Scooby-simons point that, they had opportunity to avoid by 1. tacking or 2. bearing away by blowing the main and leaving the jib on. In bearing away in the way they did, they put themselves into the position of causing te crash and therefore should also be scored as DSQ.
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