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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Shortened course
    Posted: 02 Feb 11 at 5:31pm
The advantage of making it a gate is that you eliminate both the problem of having to round a mark and cross the path on incoming boats AND you oblige boats to sail to the gate - they cannot cut corner leaving mark on the correct side (although a long way off).

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Posts: 62 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crosby mafia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 11 at 5:24pm
 I've checked our Si's and surprise surprise, I think we got it right.  Its prescribed as per rule 32.2(a) so the mark is a "rounding mark".  But I do like the idea of amending it to make a gate for the shorten course. Need to chat with the Sailing Sec and change the SI's.   
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 11 at 3:06pm
JimC,

I did say a mark bearing the "appropriate flag". I would prefer S to be kept for the use as indicated in the rule book -finish between flag and nearby mark.

We have used the V flag to say round this mark( or pass the gate) and sail to finish.

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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 11 at 12:36pm
[QUOTE=JimC]There are clubs and circumstances where this makes sense though. Frensham is one. I wouldn't want to have to do average lap sums though!

QUOTE]
Surely as soon as you shorten course at a point not a complete lap, all boats have to sail the same distance? Or was this your point?!
 
We too set a boat at a mark to shorten mid lap, on the side that the boat would have passed anyway.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 11 at 11:28am
There are clubs and circumstances where this makes sense though. Frensham is one. I wouldn't want to have to do average lap sums though!

I think Gordon is right on the money: I hadn't heard of that but it makes complete sense. Drop your S flag mark separately as a gate rather than tie on the mark and then people can go either way. It also sounds like less trouble for the race crew as well to me, so a win/win.
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 11 at 11:00am
We never did this sort of thing when my club had a club line.  You either shortened the course at the end of the lap and used the club line, or parked in a rescue boat at a mark and finished there.
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 11 at 9:19am
If you have a RIB going to the mark to attach a floating container could they not drop of an appropriate mark to form a gate. SIs would then stipulate that boats must sail through the gate before sailing to the finish.

This is a slight variant of Appendix L SI12.2 which is specifically drafted to deal with this problem.

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Posts: 62 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crosby mafia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 8:10pm
 mmmm  I'll have to look at our SI's which were recently re written for our 2010 solo open. Nothing is ever simple is it.  We actually hope to hold a racing rules evening, so will keep this quandry for that evening. 
Jim  yes your superb drawing is correct  the red was the one which should have been sailed. Green being what was sailed. 
The shorten procedure was,  we have a floating white container which is painted up as the S flag, which is attached to the bouy ( we also flew the S flag from the club flagstaff on the start / finish line)( the distance is too far to be able to see the flag) and two sound signals as the leading boats approaches, and they make way to finish.
 
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 3:27pm
I think to settle this we need extracts from the SIs relating to how courses are announced and how course are shortened.

How and where was the shortened course signalled.

Any changes to standard procedure give rise to difficulties - usually because the drafting of such SIs produce unintended effects.

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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 7:43am
Originally posted by Brass

if the pegboard had an actual string touching the marks, that, in my opinion makes them rounding marks

Our opinion too! But if you have to change the course on the CB after sailors have launched then, but only then, its a problem if you manage to set a course with a problem like that one. Its a once every five years incident I guess, and only likely to happen if the RC is rushed trying to get the race off on time and deal with changing conditions, but still worth avoiding if you can do it without causing more problems than you solve.

Edited by JimC - 01 Feb 11 at 7:45am
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