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Late starter View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Sep 10 at 2:28pm
Its down to how long the leeward boat gave the windward boat to keep clear, and how quick/aggressive the luff was.  

As others have said, the outcome is likely to be based on how aggressive a Protest Commitee  view the actions of the leeward/luffing boat. If leeward gave windward ample time to keep clear, windward is lobbed.  If leeward acted aggressively and gave windward insufficient time to keep clear and  forced windward into a quick tack to try and avoid contact - leeward gets lobbed.


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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 10 at 12:55pm
I agree Simon, but given that the boats were only seperated by 'a few inches' it means either:
 
1) Yellow luffed too quickly and did not give Blue room to keep clear
 
or
 
2) Blue did not react to Yellow luffing and therefore did not keep clear
 
If the seperation gets as close to 'a few inches' then someone has done something wrong as to who, what and when is a matter for a PC.
 
I agree it sounds like Blue is at fault however we do not know the full story so can only speculate as this juncture.
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 10 at 11:53am
Originally posted by jeffers

This is subjective (in my opinion). I agree that Blue did not have to tack however if Yellow luffed so quickly that blue did not have time to take avoiding action then it may cast doubt.
 
It would come down to facts found but if Yellow acted correctly then Blue failed to keep clear and would be DSQ (or asked to retire).
 
The important thing is to remember that there is no proper course prior to the start so you can push to head to wind no matter how the overlap was established (a fact often forgotten by many people). What they also forget is that if there are boats above the one they are luffinf they have to allow time for all of them to react as well.
 
Disagree given this comment:
 
 
Originally posted by MrBill

 The windward boat decided to tack, and in so doing, as his stern swung around he contacted the leeward boat.
 
 
If the Facts found had said "was forced to tack" or "the luff was so fast the boat could not arrest the turn and tacked" then there may be some roomm for interpretation.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 10 at 11:24am
This is subjective (in my opinion). I agree that Blue did not have to tack however if Yellow luffed so quickly that blue did not have time to take avoiding action then it may cast doubt.
 
It would come down to facts found but if Yellow acted correctly then Blue failed to keep clear and would be DSQ (or asked to retire).
 
The important thing is to remember that there is no proper course prior to the start so you can push to head to wind no matter how the overlap was established (a fact often forgotten by many people). What they also forget is that if there are boats above the one they are luffinf they have to allow time for all of them to react as well.
Paul
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 10 at 8:54am
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Blue gets binned.

Agreed.
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 10 at 8:38am
Blue gets binned.  Blue DID NOT have to tack to avoid.  Blue chose to tack; Blue made contact, Blue gets DSQ.
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MrBill View Drop Down
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Posts: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MrBill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 10 at 2:28am
Interesting but not quite the situation I described.
 
In the example given both boats are head to wind. However, in the situation as it occurred, Yellow luffs but does not go head to wind. Blue is also not head to wind, but decides to tack.
 
What then?
MrBill
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 10 at 1:49am
See MR Call Ump 5

Question 1

Yellow, a leeward boat, luffs head to wind, and Blue luffs in response, so that both reach positions side by side, head to wind. Blue continues to change course and passes head to wind. In so doing she makes contact with Yellow. There is a Y-flag. What should the call be?

 

Answer 1

If, when Yellow begins her luff, Blue immediately responds and continues to do what she is able to do to keep clear throughout the incident but there is contact anyway, then Yellow is not giving Blue room to keep clear and she breaks rule 16.1. Penalize Yellow.

If Blue could have kept clear, but either responded too slowly, not enough, or over rotated, then Blue has broken rule 11 or 13.1. Penalize Blue.
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MrBill View Drop Down
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Posts: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MrBill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 10 at 1:25am
 An incident occurred in our club a couple weeks ago, that is still being debated, with no resolution in sight, so I thought I would get more opinions.
 
Approaching the starting line before the start, a leeward boat started to luff a windward boat. As the boats approached head to wind, the boats were separated by only a few inches. The windward boat decided to tack, and in so doing, as his stern swung around he contacted the leeward boat.
 
Opinion 1 is that the windward boat fouled the leeward boat by failing to keep clear when tacking. The windward boat didn't have to tack, and by choosing to tack was obligated to keep clear.
 
Opinion 2 is that the leeward boat failed to give the windward boat sufficient room to keep clear. Tacking is one option the windward boat could use to keep clear and the leeward boat had to allow room.
 
Anybody want to weigh in on this issue?
MrBill
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