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Too tight for a sym

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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Too tight for a sym
    Posted: 16 Dec 10 at 8:51pm
Class does matter.  Some of the big asymmetrics just can't be out-musculed, you've got it right or you've got it wrong.  Whereas the symetricals tend to have a smaller kite and you can just hike that bit harder and rescue the situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 10 at 10:59am
Of course, you've got to be careful- one luff or two, if you're larding the boat flat carrying a spinnaker very highyou're putting big, often twisting, forces through your rig. One dropped sheet will seriously ruin your day.
 
it will of course have been awesome fun until that point.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Iain C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 10 at 10:49am

I'm coming at things from a Fireball perspective, but a lot of this thread seems to be talking about what to do with the kite itself. I usually sail with fairly big crews, so we will often go for the kite when others don't, but if you set the rest of the boat up properly, it's amazing how high you can go. Board right up, cunno/outhaul on hard, kicker eased a very long way, and flatwiring/hiking really hard, and a nice curl on the kite. It may well be for 50% of the leg the main is not driving very much at all, but in the lulls, or if the leg opens up, the speed difference is big between a boat two or three sail reaching. I'd rather have that power in reserve if required than have that whole "gedditupgedditup" half way down the leg, or even a cheeky Aussie drop to get round the mark if required.

Obviously if it's just too tight though, it will be s-l-o-w, and I guess time in the boat, a quick peek at the burgee for the AWA and a look at how other boats are doing (bearing in mind crew weights) is a very good barometer.

And don't forget at the end of the day it's always better for people to say to you in the bar say "where on earth were you boys going in a hail of spray, flogging sailcloth and expletives at Mach 6 on the the second lap…looked fun" instead of "erm, we rolled you when you were both sat in the boat…" Thumbs Up

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Post Options Post Options   Quote dirtysailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 10 at 9:08am
Originally posted by Phil eltringham

I know assys are a little different, but a 14 friend of mine's approach to tight reaching was hoist first if there was even a chance you could hold it. 


I tend to do this as well, just get it up as you normally would and see how far u can go. You can almost guarantee those in front will freak out and get theres up too to stay in front, and that those behind will put theres up because the boat in front did, and they want to stay in touch.

Going high enough to set it and round the mark works, but is harder to judge and others could be going faster while you waste time doing that
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 10 at 1:58pm
to go low or high at the start or end of a leg surely depends on 6 things:

1. Other boats around you
2. Your spinnaker handling skills
3. How far you need to bear away to hoist / drop in that wind strength
4 wind bend
5 size of the gusts
6 the next leg
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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 10 at 11:25am

Only just caught up with this thread.  Granted its all calss specific but for nothing more thanthe sake of wading in because i can...

I seem to remember the 420s saying a reach was too tight if once you've got the pole on the forestay and the halyard eased a few inches that if the trailing edge of the kite was pointing infront of the transom then it was too tight. 
 
I know assys are a little different, but a 14 friend of mine's approach to tight reaching was hoist first if there was even a chance you could hold it.  You can always drop and come into the mark hot, and with rights if not clear ahead compared the guys that went high first, especially if you had pressure. Its far easier to judge the best angle to two-sail on when you have the mark closer and to aim at rather than guess at the start of the leg.  The caviat with that is knowing when it is too tight and not forcing the issue to far. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 10 at 4:46pm
As a rule of thumb.  If the next leg is tight - go high, and if its free - go low.  So as for the kite - if its tight you should be 2 sailing until you are sure you can hoist and go down to the mark.  This has the advantage that you sail over all those boats that put the kite up and are now struggling.  If its very free to the next mark of course you will have the kite up and you "only" have to protect your wind.

Or to put it another way - if it looks tight wait and see.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 10 at 9:43am
The request was for a rule of thumb that could be used before hoisting. In both the Fireball and Wayfarer, I found that if the apparent wind was much ahead of the beam while two-sailing, it was unlikely that the kite would bring any extra speed if the wind remained steady.
 
But, the wind has a habit of moving about, so often it's worth pushing your luck a bit and going for the kite even if using it efficiently means falling off below the rumb line then dropping later. Often you'll get a lift and make it anyway.
 
As to when the kite is paying, I've been passed by plenty of people whose pole has been on the forestay (OK, not actually deflecting the jib luff) when i've not hoisted. Much more significant is how hard the crew is pulling on the sheet - if it's got to the point where it's just tightening the leach and causing more backwinding of the main, it's not quick.
 
[All the more surprising to me, then, to find that the latest 3000 kite can be used with benefit almost on a beat!]
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 10 at 7:46pm
i t's going to be different for each class ( or even design / extent the tolerances have been played with ) 

it';s also going to depend on the cut of the spin 

from my recollections fireball kites do seem quite flat  much more of a 'reacher' than some of the kites you'll see for a GP or wayfarer which are shrunken yacht kites ...  if the spin you have on the boat is a 'running' cut  then  the point at which a two sail reach pays off will be further off the wind 

and the exact geometry of the rig ( hoist height , is the kite halyard putting the hoist point ahead of the leading edge of the mast to any degree , also how high you hoist , the exact length of the pole and the height of the pole / mast interface 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 10 at 9:17pm

I never let the pole touch the forestay. It's something i'm passionate about. I'd rather bear off, drop early and climb up to the mark or just get the kite down as it's too tight anyway.

If the pole is touching the forestay all it's doing is making you work hard for no real gain. Bear off and go fast, cover ground.

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