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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Buzz Singlehanded Project
    Posted: 26 Feb 07 at 1:56pm
Cherubs are lightening quick in bursts, but the real good guys are the ones who make it all the way round the course without falling over a  lot ---- the boats that do well in  the big fleet handicap or pursuit races in a blow (20-25knts+) are the ones that can be sailed to 80% or more of their maximum the whole way round consistently, not radical stuff at the edge of control in those conditions

... don't get me wrong, I'd love a Cherub (or an i14, IAC, 12ft skiff etc..) for a major grin fest in a blow but that's reaching around and falling in, sailing one round a big course with mixed handicap fleets in a blow for 2-3 hours????
Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 07 at 8:55pm

I have never raced an IC but I know the guy at Hoo wins the Hoo freezer quite often.

The only time I have raced a Cherub was in the Draycote Silver Salvers many years back and it was breezey and we were sailing 470 and the Cherub won by miles.

So ... I'd say they were OK in a breeze.

Anyway ... handicap racing with PY's that are not adjusted for wind strength just a it of fun ... we all know every dog has it's day.

Rick
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 07 at 8:18pm
While there's a deree of truth in that, my personal experience in Cherubs and ICs, neither of which is regarded as excessively easy to sail, and both of which are at their best in a breeze, suggests that their PY figures are somewhat less generous in that respect.
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 07 at 4:11pm

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Guest#260

1) The MPS handicap is fair and if you can complete the course in a breeze without a capsize you should get a result


I've got to say that if that's what you regard as being fair I'd be very interested in what you'd describe as being generous. I would hope that in order to "get a result" in a breeze it would require a little bit more than just sailing round without falling over.

As you know PY's are based on the average performance for a fleet.

Boats like the 49er, I14, RS700 & Musto Skiff for the average mid fleet person in a breeze (F4+) may well experience a capsize with the kite up which is quite time consuming.

If you can sail any of these classes well in a F4+ and not capsize you will benefit from that ... I though this was well understood ...

Rick
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 07 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

1) The MPS handicap is fair and if you can complete the course in a breeze without a capsize you should get a result


I've got to say that if that's what you regard as being fair I'd be very interested in what you'd describe as being generous. I would hope that in order to "get a result" in a breeze it would require a little bit more than just sailing round without falling over.
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 07 at 12:01am

This isn't fun, this is soooo boring - I'm just fed up with people having what I consider to be unwarranted digs at the 700 and LDC, nothing more.

The RYA are obviously pretty happy with the 700 handicap which, if it hasn't changed validates LDC's original proposal.  I see no reason to change it.

Ian
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 07 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

So if the PY returns have supported the 700's number and the MPS beats it regularly on the water, what does that tell you about the MPS number?

yawn ... oh well he we go.

Many MPS's have sailed in the big handicap events for many years and usually do OK but don't clean up. The 700's don't often turn up but if they do they don't do well, apart from one event at Northampton.

From my own experince of club racing and sailing against the 700's I have concluded the following:

1) The MPS handicap is fair and if you can complete the course in a breeze without a capsize you should get a result

2) In light winds the MPS will get beaten on handicap; especially by Merlins

3) The MPS fleet is faster than the 700 fleet. 2 years of Tide RIde have proved that ... but is that down to the boat or the sailors or both?

IMHO the 700 handicap is too low and should be a few points higher or the same as the MPS. It may have a different RYA status but it has never changed as far as I know ...

At the end of the day PY racing if for fun - fleet racing is where it happens

There you go Ian I am sure you can have fun with that post ...

Rick

 
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 07 at 7:39pm

So if the PY returns have supported the 700's number and the MPS beats it regularly on the water, what does that tell you about the MPS number?

 
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 07 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by Ian29937

Originally posted by Guest#260

Has the 700 number ever changed after it was issued by LDC?

Rick

I've no idea - it has been validated by the RYA though.

I think the number is exactly the same as the first number LDC gave ... anyway we have had this discussion before so lets not have it again ....

Rick
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Ian29937 View Drop Down
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 07 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

Has the 700 number ever changed after it was issued by LDC?

Rick

I've no idea - it has been validated by the RYA though.
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