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When to tack

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: When to tack
    Posted: 15 Sep 09 at 10:24pm
Where is the club?

Maybe the best thing to do is to contact the RYA regional rules advisor who could come to the club, or reccomend a judge/umpire who would be prepared to visit.

Gordon
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ericdonks View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ericdonks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 09 at 8:20pm
I think your absolutly correct Gordon, I do no the rules, but at times I am unsure especialy when this particular charictar persists, I tend to start thinking he must have somthing.
I am going to suggest we have a unofficial protest hearing next weekend in an attempt to resolve the issue.
We can't have large keel boats colliding with each other, it does the sport no good I'll let you know the outcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 09 at 7:46pm
The tacking boat must keep clear until she is on a close hauled course (rule 13). If she then acquires right of way she must give you room to keep clear (rule 15). You do not have to take any avoiding action (unless it is to avoid contact) and can sail your course until boat is on close-hauled course. Then and only then mus ou start to change course if this is necessary to keep clear.

In the incident described the other boat should have taken a penalty, you should have protested. You did  not avoid contact and thus broke rule 14. If there was any damage to either boat then you could, and should, also have taken a penalty.

In some ways the incident is a step backwards - there are now 2 boats not 1 breaking the rules and still noone is either taking a penalty or protesting! Protest and be done with it.

Better still get a competent umpire out on the water for a day. I suspect that your late taker is not the only sailor on the water who needs some practical wok on the rules.

Gordon

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 09 at 4:58pm

Originally posted by ericdonks

Well gents last weekend while fleet racing our Tempest with five other boats, coming from the back after a bad start, we meet our late tacker while on starboard, he had seen us some way back.
My crew was about to hail when I told him not to, and yes he tacked late I did not move up to wind or to leeward just kept my course collision occured, while he was going through the tack, his boom had not completely gone over to the other tack sails were not full.
He was full of anger, but no cries of protest, but I aknowledge I'm equally to blame as I did not avoid collision, but I have now made my point.
Next time I avoid collision and protest, I am very clear in my head with the help from you guy's where this situation needs to go.
Incidently we got through the fleet to finish second only half boat length in it at the end.

Just one thing you need to be aware of. The boat only needs to be on a close hauled course on the new tack, the sails to do need to be set it is the course of the boat that is important.

As for the contact, you are lucky he did not protest you for an avoidable collision (he would probably have got chucked himself as well).

My opinion is that he will still do this to people until he is in the protest room...

Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ericdonks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 09 at 4:44pm
Well gents last weekend while fleet racing our Tempest with five other boats, coming from the back after a bad start, we meet our late tacker while on starboard, he had seen us some way back.
My crew was about to hail when I told him not to, and yes he tacked late I did not move up to wind or to leeward just kept my course collision occured, while he was going through the tack, his boom had not completely gone over to the other tack sails were not full.
He was full of anger, but no cries of protest, but I aknowledge I'm equally to blame as I did not avoid collision, but I have now made my point.
Next time I avoid collision and protest, I am very clear in my head with the help from you guy's where this situation needs to go.
Incidently we got through the fleet to finish second only half boat length in it at the end.
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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 09 at 12:28pm
Remember that the race committee or the protest committee may also proest a boat. This may be the diplomatic way to deal with such a repeat offender. In htis way the race officials are demonstrating that they are the guarantors of fair racing.

I have only done this once, when I observed an incident from a Jury boat. It was the offending boat that protested, and after much discussion with the other race officials who observed the incident we decided that I should protest in order to ensure that the protest went ahead.

You could also invite a qualifed umpire or judge to spend a day on the water and flag incidents. This can often stimulate a lively debate about the rules - leave time for a debriefing after sailing.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 09 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by JimC

More to the point, if the rest of you take turns at getting him in the protest room every week, win or lose, he'll soon be motivated to sail in a more gentlemanly fashion.


YES YES YES!!  DO DO DO please protest him or her!!!!

Also if this person tends to do this tactic ontop of less experienced sailors then I would actually protest them on rule 2, being bad sportsmanship,  as well as rules 10, 13 andc 15
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 8:03am
Neither "water" nor "room" are required hails. The boat entitled to mark room is not required to hail to claim her rights, although nothing prevents her doing so.

It could be interesting to test rules knowlege in a club - run a rules test at a social evening , AGM, or at the club regatta. I once started a rules evening by asking everyone to rate teir rules knowledge on a scale of 1 to 10. People were honest, and average score was about 2.5! The erudute lecture on the changes to rule 8 was instantly scrapped and we embarked on a run through of the rules from the beginning of the book.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser4000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 09 at 7:47am
Originally posted by redback

Your port tacker is still using the old rules, from about 12 years ago.  It was a legitimate move back then but no longer is.  I bet he's old enough to have been racing back then and thinks he knows the rules. 

Here's a way to recognise if he's up-to-date.  If he calls "water" at the mark it confirms he's out-of-date - the modern term is "room".



Nah that's just semantics, some people still call for water even now...

If he calls mast abeam though....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 09 at 10:59pm

Your port tacker is still using the old rules, from about 12 years ago.  It was a legitimate move back then but no longer is.  I bet he's old enough to have been racing back then and thinks he knows the rules. 

Here's a way to recognise if he's up-to-date.  If he calls "water" at the mark it confirms he's out-of-date - the modern term is "room".

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