Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Waves and more waves |
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sten ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 208 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 16 Sep 08 at 2:26pm |
if the boat heels it is slow because you will end up fighting the rudder better to let the sail out or pinch which will depend on the type of wave, if the wave is square on upwind you can flatten them out by sailing at an angle over them either pinching or footing which ever allows you to get over the difficult waves with out slamming them, if you want to foot then you will have to play the main alot to keep it flat, the other option is to pinch over the waves which is slower but silular vmg. if you are very light and its windy reaching of is often and rapid trimming the main the best option but you will need to be fit.
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Doh it's such a long time ago I read up on this sort of stuff. I can't remember for the life of me where I came across that "jefferies sheltering theory" if you google it all it comes up with is my references to it here. But it was in a sailing book that dealt with waves, but.... In those days more often than not, the waves were moving faster than the boats and even reading back to my own views, they tend toward that tactical view that often the issue is climbing up the backs then surfing down the front. Angles now play a big part with us, and crews, deciding to take a promenade around the foredeck, then whining like girls when they slip in the water, lucky they have that wire thing to bounce from, why they have to spin round in circles as well though, all because I've had to bear off a bit suddenly to catch a wave.. Then they whine cos they can't hold the spinnaker when I need to climb high a bit along a particular face to build the speed necessary to dive down and clear the back of the next wave. So now what we've worked out to keep him happy he controls all the wave riding activity with 'off' 'up' commands. All I now do is waggle the stick, a monkey could do it. ![]() But back to the question, I'll have to check up at home, see if I can remember/find any of my old sailing books. Obviously "start to win' would have been one of them, I can't remember what he said about waves, I used to have endless debates with him, coming as I did more from the windsurfers planing centreboard free angle. |
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dics ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 05 Oct 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 317 |
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Tom, Talk to class coach Alastair Wood. He is a light weight and last year moved from an A to B rig. You can email him on the Yahoo group. |
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tmoore ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Nov 07 Location: Wales Online Status: Offline Posts: 880 |
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it may have been ok for you dics. however with the board up and maxed out kicker and downhaul i was still overpowered. obviously i should be on the baby rig. im just wondering, i know there mush be lots of lightweights in the same situation, how do they cope? or is it simply a matter of sheeting out and curling the front of the main? i hate doing this upwind because of the extra drag im creating which slows me down. on the other hand will be overpowered be slowing me more? G.R.F, i dont suppose you could reccoment a book or something to help with waves (its jut upwind, downwind i love surfing them) |
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RS300 - 410 Firefly F517 - Nutshell Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse |
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dics ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 05 Oct 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 317 |
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Thanks for the all info. Lots to think about. Like you Redback i was overtaking the chop but then every 4th and 5th wave were a bit bigger so when I got to those it was surfing with the subsequent loss of pressure in the rig. basically up wind I need to get more in tune and work the boat with the waves as Sten suggests and off wind I need to formulate a stragegy depending on where the waves are coming from to bear off and surf the big un's and then down wind it will be surfing with by the lee in the troughs to get me to the waves I want to surf. I know my rig settings were fine for the conditions.In the 300 when you get to a certain point you tend to be on pretty much the same settings when sailing off wind as to sailing upwind. Down wind it was only less kicker used. Even the board stayed up 10 inches all day!
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redback ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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It sounds like you are overpowered most of the time.
That's exactly why I sail a 4000 - most of the time we are overpowered. Unlike the contributor above we drive off in the gusts and head up in the lulls. To drive off in the gust you have to play the main-sheet. We don't cleat ours, and as we bear off we ease and hike hard then squeeze and relax a bit as we go up. We have enough mast bend, kicker and down-haul to enable this but never enough to feel underpowered. In a chop we modify this so that we hit the waves fast. In bigger waves we will squeeze up and then drive a bit on the way down. In very large waves we don't bother unless we encounter a breaking crest. Downwind in a fast boat like ours we tend to overtake a chop and so its a bit of a bucking bronco sort of ride which just means hanging on. In larger waves we are still too fast to surf them but we have to watch we don't lose heeling force and "tea bag" the crew because the pressure drops on the way up the back. However in my Laser and Scorpion days I really used to enjoy surfing and by getting in sync and really throwing your weight about you can get quite an advantage over the more sedentary sailor but it takes practice. In Lasers I certainly have surfed right up to the transom of Wayfarers by using their wake on otherwise flat water. The only surfing I get in the 4000 is upwind where a powerboat can provide waves to surf on since you are often on the brink of planing anyway. It sounds like you need to pay attention to your rig controls. Bend that mast (especially with down-haul) until you are only just overpowered. If the sail is flogging then you have to use more down-haul then you'll be able to drive hard in the gusts, squeeze in the lulls and in waves you'll have more options and control. Sorry I got carried away but I hope you found it useful. Edited by redback |
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Sailing in waves?
Doh, where shall I start. A lot depends on what kind of waves. Lots of questions, are they tidal ( I don't mean tsunami tidal) I mean is there current involved, and are they wind with current or wind against tide. Then there's the wave speed, are they travelling faster or slower than you. Then there's the height thing, how much is the rise and fall. Then there's the how much wind in relation to the wave thing. All offer different techniques and opportunity for advantage to you, and disadvantage to your opponent if he or she doesn't spot any of what's going on. Far be it from me to get off on one here, especially in such esteemed company, and I'm also coming from a bit of a beginner angle here trying to make a boat do the same as what years of making a board do by instinct has proved successful. Lots of it is transferable especially the down wind in waves bit. You can use waves to overcome an unfavorable current, just dont get stuck in a trough. You can use faster waves than slower shorter waves when the currents favorable. Up wind, sometimes avoiding the waves pays, sometimes they can be a sign of a faster moving windward current, so go get in there and work them. If they're slamming footing off and powering through them is best. If there's not a lot of wind but the waves are big, the rolling effect under the wave surface (and look up jefferies sheltering theory) can help with some times sheeting out and in to balance, to legally propel you faster by sheeting out staying upright as the wave approaches then sheeting in on the recovery. There's simply too much to put in a single forum post, it's an entire chapter of a tactical sailing book, how to deal with waves, but one thing to definitely do, make them your friend, annoying buggers that they can be when they're icy cold and smack you in the face. they do make sailing more fun. |
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tmoore ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Nov 07 Location: Wales Online Status: Offline Posts: 880 |
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i know what you mean as i do that in the 29er all the time. it just doesnt work the same when your about 3stone underweight
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RS300 - 410 Firefly F517 - Nutshell Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse |
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FireballNeil ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 654 |
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the faster you go the less gusts blow you sideways though, if I were light id be making the most of every lull to bear off and gain as much speed as possible
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Neil
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tmoore ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Nov 07 Location: Wales Online Status: Offline Posts: 880 |
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only problem is that im too light to be able to crack off into that power zone and still keep the boat flat in anything above about 10mph....
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Landlocked in Africa
RS300 - 410 Firefly F517 - Nutshell Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse |
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