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Sailing backwards

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sailing backwards
    Posted: 10 Apr 08 at 8:55am
Rule 20.3 applies throughout the race, not just before the start.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 08 at 8:47am
Originally posted by craiggo


Sailing backwards and its effect on the rules has always caused me some headaches. I can remember trapping a competitor in between me and the committee boat at the Wilson Trophy and he tried to sail out of it by reveresing, I reversed to hold him and prevent him tacking behind me, and then when it became apparent that he was going to clear the transom of the committe boat I tacked off, gybed, cleared his transom and got a flying start while he tried to get going forwards. Others were trying similar tactics, but not sure if anyone really new where they stood with the results


I'm not sure of the exact details, but I heard from some top guys that before the start, if you reverse without touching your sails you keep your rights, but the second you touch you sails the rules say you are deliberately sailing backwards and lose all your rights.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 08 at 12:40am
Originally posted by craiggo

Not sure. But if you luff above closed hauled at the start you lose any rights, its just a question of whether letting you sails out and stalling is deemed above close-hauled or not !

Sailing backwards and its effect on the rules has always caused me some headaches. I can remember trapping a competitor in between me and the committee boat at the Wilson Trophy and he tried to sail out of it by reveresing, I reversed to hold him and prevent him tacking behind me, and then when it became apparent that he was going to clear the transom of the committe boat I tacked off, gybed, cleared his transom and got a flying start while he tried to get going forwards. Others were trying similar tactics, but not sure if anyone really new where they stood with the results


Wooooaaaaaaahhhh you can luff to head to wind before the start if you want and dont loose any rights. Its only when you cross head to wind you loose rights and thats because you are a boat tacking. I could give you a rule number description of whats on and off if you want but its simpler to understand by what i just said
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 08 at 12:26am
There is no such thing as a proper course before the start.
 When the gun goes any boat that is restricted by rule 17.1 may not sail above her proper course. The proper course on  a beat is usually close-hauled, although there are exceptions.
To be restricted by rule 17.1  a boat must have established an overlap from clear astern within 2 boatlengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack. This does not apply if the overlap begins whilst the windward boat is tacking.

So, if you hang back at the start and come in late, close to leeward of another boat as soon as the gun goes you must return to your proper course. This is not usually a problem in fleet racing but in team and match racing a boat may be tempted to continue luffing the windward boat. If they do they shold be protested and they will receive a penalty.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 08 at 8:27pm

Originally posted by craiggo

Not sure. But if you luff above closed hauled at the start you lose any rights,

im fairly sure you can luff as high as you like beofre the start, there's no proper course so you can stuff people up as far into the wind as you like as long as you dont tack.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 08 at 8:21pm
Not sure. But if you luff above closed hauled at the start you lose any rights, its just a question of whether letting you sails out and stalling is deemed above close-hauled or not !

Sailing backwards and its effect on the rules has always caused me some headaches. I can remember trapping a competitor in between me and the committee boat at the Wilson Trophy and he tried to sail out of it by reveresing, I reversed to hold him and prevent him tacking behind me, and then when it became apparent that he was going to clear the transom of the committe boat I tacked off, gybed, cleared his transom and got a flying start while he tried to get going forwards. Others were trying similar tactics, but not sure if anyone really new where they stood with the results
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 08 at 7:10pm
ive never heard that one before craiggo, is it something to do with proper course?
600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 08 at 6:05pm
But if you stall, then aren't you deemed to be above close hauled and therefore lose your rights ?
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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 08 at 1:13pm
That's what the rule says! Note that whilst you may still have right of way over some boats you will also have an obligation to keep clear from others. Keeping clear is not easy when stalled and moving astern!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 08 at 12:50pm

So if I'm on the start line, stall (happens a lot in light wind) and start moving backwards (unintentionally) I don't lose all rights? But if I back a sail to do it intentionally I do?

Is that overly simplistic?

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