Individual Handicaps

But is it a solution? Where is the incentive for the class association to give out handicaps that are a true reflection of the speed of the boat rather than a favourable handicap to the sailors (looks good if you go around winning high profile major events). What do they gain? Where are they going to pluck these numbers from? As I said before, ranking the sailors relative to each other is one thing, having a baseline handicap to compare to other boats is another altogether.
And frankly, how large do we think the Moth CA is? We are not talking about a manufacturer supported class with full time staff, we are talking about volunteers, who have plenty to do without the added pressure of getting into arguments over handicap numbers.... 

RE:>> I believe that Spinnaker and Burghfield are two of the top clubs in the UK and are some of the few clubs that have multi championship winners regularly competing in club events.

Can't speak for Spinnaker, but since Christmas I believe Burghfield has had current or previous National Champions from 6 or 7 different classes competing. As well as having separate starts for Asymmetric, Fast, Laser and Slow handicap, we also count the time of all boats for a combined fleet - which last Sunday, provided the top 3 boats from 3 different classes within 11 seconds on corrected time.

As for personal handicaps: on a Wednesday evening in the summer, we have a scheme where everyones personal handicap alters (by between 1 second and 1 minute) from one week to the next depending on finishing position. And as we get an average of 60 boats every week it does seem to encourage people onto the water. But we only use this for a Wednesday: On a Sunday its the normal PY based handicaps we use.

Let's go back a bit. We aren't talking about the lowest level, we're talking about large high profile events. At a club level personal handicaps are ideal, certainly in smaller clubs where abilities are fairly well known they work very well. At our club the helm handicap series (I don't mean to keep winning it, I just like sailing on Tuesdays, honest...) operates on this basis with the winners having their handicap decreased, and the last few having it increased (varies depending on how many boats are racing). While comparing the sailors within a fleet (ie International Moth) allows for a 'direct' comparison, the problem is how you then relate them to everyone else... 

Originally posted by ColH Originally posted by giraffe Personal handicaps make the sport better at the lowest level.  I would just, to play devil's advocate a little, counter that with the need to promote WINNING. The people who aren't the best should not win. I believe this is one reason why GB's sporting achievements are often not what they could be. Compare with somewhere like Aus (ok, bigger population too, perhaps) where winning is so so important. People like Foggy (=god) exemplify the determination that 2nd is not enough. That said, personal handicaps can have a place a grass roots level to encourage newcomers etc, but that should only be as a parallel and secondary to the 'real' prize. Edit: Foggy = Carl Fogarty

Your example does not stand up to any analysis.  Aus is the country which does scratch and handicap results in all racing - club and championship.  Winning should be done by the best and as scratch boat I enjoy club racing substantially more when it is on a handicap basis (which is hard) as opposed to on a fleet basis as this is easier to achieve as there are fewer people involved. 

Get better people involved in club racing by giving them a target.  It works.  I believe that Spinnaker and Burghfield are two of the top clubs in the UK and are some of the few clubs that have multi championship winners regularly competing in club events.

Originally posted by ColH Originally posted by giraffe Personal handicaps make the sport better at the lowest level.  I would just, to play devil's advocate a little, counter that with the need to promote WINNING. The people who aren't the best should not win. I believe this is one reason why GB's sporting achievements are often not what they could be. Compare with somewhere like Aus

You forgot the "with the exception of sailing bit"...