New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Why trap with kite downwind?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Why trap with kite downwind?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Dermot M View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 23 Aug 06
Location: Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 59
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dermot M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why trap with kite downwind?
    Posted: 20 Jan 07 at 12:13am

The wind at the Inlands in Blesso last year was quite gusty and a bit shifty. I found myself on the wrong side a few times

I remember at the 2005 Spitfire Europeans, Jonathan Loday was helming and trapezed downwind in everything but the lightest winds. Most of the others stayed in. It started me thinking. I think that it depends on conditions. I have done very well, staying in sometimes, and other times trapezing.

Dermot
Shadow 075
Back to Top
SX501 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 Sep 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10
Post Options Post Options   Quote SX501 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 07 at 6:30pm

that was a very cold day and i had no hat.

The reason you where the only one on the wire was because thereis no such think as a constant breeze in blesso. one min you are screaming next min wind shift of 90 degrees and its all stop. i Think anyway

Biddy

 

Back to Top
English Dave View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 06
Location: Northern Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 682
Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 07 at 2:59pm

Dermot

(Thanks for e-mail - got the sad news by sms last night)

I'm only all the way back in a hooley. It's all about watching the bow and choosing your position accordingly. Anyway what's your position on all this? At last year's inland I think I was the only one wiring downwind and t'other Dermot in his Tiger was advocating staying inboard.

I think I am becoming half chameleon. I can now rotate my eyes independently and watch lee bow and mainsail at the same time!

English Dave
Ballyholme Yacht Club

(You'd think I'd be better at it by now)

Hurricane 5.9 SX
RS700
Back to Top
Dermot M View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 23 Aug 06
Location: Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 59
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dermot M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 07 at 1:37pm

Originally posted by English Dave

Great pic of you in a 400 on your website - get a proper hat!

Jeeeez Biddy, You look like somebody's Granda being taken for a sail !

I agree that you don't just throw yourself out the back when trapezing. On the Spitfire, I walk quite a bit forward when the wind drops and then bear off and move back as it increases again.

Dermot
Shadow 075
Back to Top
tornado435 View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 05 May 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 196
Post Options Post Options   Quote tornado435 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 07 at 12:43pm

We are quite a big crew by tornado standards and we also find we need to keep the weight quite far forward. Make sure you keep an eye on the fore aft trim and get the crew to adjust to suit.

with my bulk stuck on the tramp, in most conditions dan is still in front of the rear beam. A lot of the time he is trapezing about where I trapeze going upwind...

 

 

Note to self, must continue the weight reduction program, anybody want a spare leg?????

Back to Top
English Dave View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 06
Location: Northern Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 682
Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 07 at 9:36am

Biddy

Cheers for that and Happy New year by the way. How's it going with the video from the Donnie Mac? And have you started to gee up the Swords boats for the Euros? What are you doing crew-wise? Great pic of you in a 400 on your website - get a proper hat!

 

English Dave
Ballyholme Yacht Club

(You'd think I'd be better at it by now)

Hurricane 5.9 SX
RS700
Back to Top
SX501 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 Sep 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10
Post Options Post Options   Quote SX501 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 07 at 9:29am

Dave just when your trying that unless its blowing dont go all the way to the back because we found at the start of last year It slowed us down because she was sticking the arse in the water to much keep it balanced as best you can. See yea soon for a couple of pint of magners.

Biddy

Back to Top
English Dave View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 06
Location: Northern Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 682
Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 12:09pm

Second half of our Icebreaker starts on Feb 4th so I'll give it a go. We did a lot of trapese work downwind last summer but it was an old kite and I got ribbed for showboating so I caved in. Now got new cut kite so might give it another go. It wa always me out there on the wire as I am more nimble than my crew and found it easier to feel the balance out there. Gybes were always awkward though. If I was behind the rear beam then I'd have to bear off a little to take the pressure off the bow(s) so I could move forward. The come inboard while still bearing away slightly and go straight into the gybe. What sometimes happened however was that I bore off too much, The boat would slow and flatten off and I would not only be tea-bagged but thrown forward, losing my footing and starting an impressive but unsustainable body-drag. Crew got quite good at sheeting the kite with one hand while trying to pull me back on board with the other.

English Dave
Ballyholme Yacht Club

(You'd think I'd be better at it by now)

Hurricane 5.9 SX
RS700
Back to Top
Scooby_simon View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 02 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2415
Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 11:05am
Originally posted by English Dave

Ok thanks. I can kind of get my head round that.

But for it to work properly you need

a: A long enough downwind leg

b. To be consistently on one hull throughout. If you drop a hull then you have to start all over again to build up speed and bring the AW forward.

Perhaps that's my problem in that in the general club racing the legs are shorter than in a catamaran regatta. In a BF4 we would be wiring downwind anyway to keep the bows up. It's the BF3 strength where I think it's maybe a judgement call.

I think I'm pretty swift downwind. That's because we drive pretty hard downwind - none of this soaking down business -  and my crew trusts me enough to never dump the kite, foolishly beleiving that I'm savvy enough on the rudders to keep it upright. But I've not been able to establish any significant advantage in medium airs to make trapesing worthwhile.

 

a, Long enough to get the kite up and on the wire for a few seconds ! , you really do go that much faster ! 

b, It takes more practice - look back at the rules-of-thum re wiring up wind and apply them - in a F3 I'd thing in most powerful boats wiring will pay (I'm planning to wire the F16 in less than that !

Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
Back to Top
English Dave View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 06
Location: Northern Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 682
Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 10:59am

Ok thanks. I can kind of get my head round that.

But for it to work properly you need

a: A long enough downwind leg

b. To be consistently on one hull throughout. If you drop a hull then you have to start all over again to build up speed and bring the AW forward.

Perhaps that's my problem in that in the general club racing the legs are shorter than in a catamaran regatta. In a BF4 we would be wiring downwind anyway to keep the bows up. It's the BF3 strength where I think it's maybe a judgement call.

I think I'm pretty swift downwind. That's because we drive pretty hard downwind - none of this soaking down business -  and my crew trusts me enough to never dump the kite, foolishly beleiving that I'm savvy enough on the rudders to keep it upright. But I've not been able to establish any significant advantage in medium airs to make trapesing worthwhile.

English Dave
Ballyholme Yacht Club

(You'd think I'd be better at it by now)

Hurricane 5.9 SX
RS700
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy