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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bloody Mary
    Posted: 09 Jan 07 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by moomin

There's another interesting question then.When is the start of a pursuit race? 



This is all in the preamble to part 2 of the rules...

The rules of Part 2 apply between boats that are sailing in or near the racing
and intend to race, are racing, or have been racing. However, a boat not racing
shall not be penalized for breaking one of these rules, except rule 22.1. When
boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel that is not, she shall comply
the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS)
government right-of-way rules. However, an alleged breach of those rules
not be grounds for a protest except by the race committee or protest committee.
If the sailing instructions so state, the rules of Part 2 are replaced by the rightof-
way rules of the IRPCAS or by government right-of-way rules.
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moomin View Drop Down
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Posts: 60 		Post Options Post Options   Quote moomin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 07 at 12:06pm

There's another interesting question then.

When is the start of a pursuit race?  Your particular start therefore you can pump etc to get to the start line on time. Or. Prep signal for the first boat to start, therfore all boats are racing and rules apply, For example if I was taken out by a boat waiting to start after I'd started I'd expect them to retire but if they weren't racing then should they have to?

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redders View Drop Down
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Posts: 41 		Post Options Post Options   Quote redders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 07 at 11:31am

If the collision happened before the start, then neither were racing at the time, therefore no race to retire from?

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Blobby View Drop Down
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Posts: 779 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 07 at 12:26am

If it had been the ROW boat that had been holed then I have no doubt everyone would be in agreement that the other boat should have retired.

Given that both boats are at fault, but the one that came off worst was more at fault, after a confirmation that they could get back to shore safely I would see no reason for the ROW boat continuing to race.  Clearly a different matter if they needed to give assistance to the boat that was holed to ensure the safety of all on board though...
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 07 at 12:34pm

Sounds like an unfortunate accident to me ... no retirement necessary IMHO.

 
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rogerd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1076 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 07 at 12:16pm

My point Jim and the reason for the question is no one took avoiding action because neither boat saw the other until the point of impact which is negligent on both boats part.

I am only asking because it came up after the race and was an interesting point. If I had been in the ROW boat I would have probably sailed on but there is the nagging doubt that serious damage was caused and with three in the boat in light winds should someone have noticed in time for avoiding action to have been taken?

Most of us have been in situations like this so I thought I would stir things up a bit and see what the general consensus is. I am in no way apportioning blame or saying he should retire.
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radixon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2407 		Post Options Post Options   Quote radixon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 07 at 10:46am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 07 at 10:17am
Originally posted by rogerd

but should the A for not taking avoiding action in time.


The ROW boat is not required to take avoiding action until its clear that the other boat is not keeping clear. So IMHO it would really take a hearing to determine whether the A should be DSQ/retire. If for instnce the A took avoiding action at the last second, but the 505 also changed course at the last second, and that the A might have succeeded in avoiding the collision but for the 505s late action then it would be suprising if the A got chucked.
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rogerd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1076 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 07 at 9:07am

We had an interesting discussion on the way home. There was a big collision between the A rater and a 5o5 before the start. The 5o was badly holed and forced to retire. I was quite close and the 5o was on port the A rater on starboard. Neither boat saw the other until the last seconds so neither was keeping a proper lookout.

My understanding of the rules is taht if serious damage occurs then retirements are in order. The 5o retired because he had to but should the A for not taking avoiding action in time. Both boats were at fault for not keeping sufficient lookout and lets face it, it was hardly the sort of conditions where you were so hiked out it was difficult to see under the sails.

Controversial topic to start  the week!!!

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Villan View Drop Down
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Posts: 1768 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Villan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 07 at 10:56pm
Hmmm .. True ...

What happened to the "helm / crew / boat / club / position" layout?

I like the new idea of being able to jump straight to your results though, and highlight it, rather than having to scroll through until your find your name.
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