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Different way of seeing
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Different way of seeing
    Posted: 09 Mar 22 at 7:58am
Originally posted by JimC

Whilst I don't disagree with the premise that the Topper and Laser asymmetric boats were not very good, I think any hypotheses you come up with need to include the fact that Fireballs and 505s, once among the most popular classes in the country numerically, have similarly disappeared into the long grass and really nothing has replaced them. You can add the Laser 2 to the list too - once a very significant class worldwide and now more or less extinct with nothing apparently replacing it.

well observed, although I suspect the double-handedness of them all has a certain effect.

I guess the closest replacement to the L2 is the RS200... even the most committed of my mates who had them have finally given up when kids reached ages where they have a say in what's going on at the weekend.

Most of the kids don't want to sail too.... I wonder if there is a generational cycle where sailing (or any other pastime) struggles beyond three generations?
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 3:57pm
Some people seem to assume that the trend for more singlehanders is automatically a Bad Thing.
Not convinced myself.

Also people forget that in Ye Olde Days, lots of people sailed Ents, Grads, N12, Firefly Mirror...etc etc singlehanded for pottering and club racing.
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 2:33pm
Club-owned boats may be the last vestige of two or three-handers at many a location where there isn't existing support for classes like FB, MR, N12, i14 or GP14's.  The demise of the Mirror as a ubiquitous youth / parent and kids boat is probably the biggest factor IMO that has gone on to hammer two-handers, that and the relative costs of sailing versus other leisure pursuits which many families now do instead or teens do them (SUP, kite boards etc) and Mum/Dad has an Aero
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Posts: 126 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Q Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 12:21pm
The Club does have two or three Fevas but they're not that popular with the kids, they almost always want to sail on their own..
Still sailing in circles
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 11:37am
Originally posted by The Q



My main club went down to almost no dinghies about 20 years ago , having had a big enterprise Fleet and a variety of other two man boats.
Then they started a sailing school, up to 80 kids on a Thursday afternoon / evening learning to sail.. All volunteer run, so very cheap to learn to sail..
But..
They learn in club Oppies .. single handed,
Move on to club toppers ..  single handed,
Buy their own Splash  or Laser single handed.
Very few have gone to two person boats. 
In the old days you learnt by crewing , then getting the offer to sail back to the club at the end of sailing, then sharing the helm then eventually you moved on to your own two man boat.
What's keeping the Keelboat fleet alive is adults coming back into sailing or coming to learn in the club Yeomans.




Maybe the club should buy some Fevas for the kids to sail in together? Might help in the long run.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 10:24am
We've had a sudden upsurge in Tasars, presumably because they're cheap, but they are also light, to deal with our beach recovery issues. I think we may have six or seven this coming season.
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The Q View Drop Down
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Posts: 126 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Q Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 8:18am
My main club went down to almost no dinghies about 20 years ago , having had a big enterprise Fleet and a variety of other two man boats.

Then they started a sailing school, up to 80 kids on a Thursday afternoon / evening learning to sail.. All volunteer run, so very cheap to learn to sail..
But..
They learn in club Oppies .. single handed,

Move on to club toppers ..  single handed,

Buy their own Splash  or Laser single handed.

Very few have gone to two person boats. 

In the old days you learnt by crewing , then getting the offer to sail back to the club at the end of sailing, then sharing the helm then eventually you moved on to your own two man boat.

What's keeping the Keelboat fleet alive is adults coming back into sailing or coming to learn in the club Yeomans.


Edited by The Q - 08 Mar 22 at 8:25am
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 22 at 12:18am
I have no idea about the wider sailing world . But certainly at my club all types of crewed boats are on the decline. We are down to two enterprises and a n12. 
The move to singlehanders at smaller clubs seems unstoppable.

Is this trend the same at other clubs ? 




Edited by Grumpycat - 08 Mar 22 at 7:36am
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 22 at 9:28pm
56,000 420's. 10,500 Laser 2.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 22 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by JimC

Whilst I don't disagree with the premise that the Topper and Laser asymmetric boats were not very good, I think any hypotheses you come up with need to include the fact that Fireballs and 505s, once among the most popular classes in the country numerically, have similarly disappeared into the long grass and really nothing has replaced them. You can add the Laser 2 to the list too - once a very significant class worldwide and now more or less extinct with nothing apparently replacing it.

I don't think that's got much to do with them being easy or hard to sail
More to do with the performance you get for your money.
Both classes have focussed on international competition, and in 505's that doesn't come cheap.
Fireballs lost a generation of sailors to asy classes, which deliver the same speed in less wind.
When you look at club PY fleets and clubs' tendencies to race or not in light/heavy conditions, I don't  see a lot of opportunities where a mid-price Fireball or 505 would be the right answer.

Then there's the issue of the PY being driven down by the sailmakers who race shiny high tech new ones.

Basically it's not the 70s or 80s any more and the days of an open meeting most weekends ithe 'season' have gone for most classes.

As for the Laser 2, you might as well ask why we don't drive Austin Montegos any more. Worldwide numbers were never that impressive anyway, give that a lot were not owned by actual individual sailors. You can buy one for buttons now, but why would you? As a boat they were pretty crap, but they gave affordable level OD racing for their 20 minutes of fame.
The people L2's were targetted at might be sailing RS200s, RS500s, 29ers, other stuff outside Englandshire? How do worldwide 420 sales compare with the L2?
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