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Rounding a windward Mark to Starboard
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Oct 20 at 7:47pm
There's always one of those but usually the rest tell said novice to take no notice...  Big smile
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 20 at 6:55pm
I tend to agree with sam on this and this tends to work well at most clubs unless there happens to be a aggressive’ shouter ‘ in the fleet which can scare a novice sailor . 
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 20 at 4:43pm
When you are learning to race it is necessary to know the basic 'when boats meet' rules, 10-13, add to that the advice to stay out of the way at marks and the novice racer can get by pretty we'll. Once they get to the point of challenging for positions they should probably be making an effort to understand the basics.
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 20 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by Brass

Originally posted by jeffers

The rules are a minefield


I don't agree with this. The rules are the rules: they create the game.


For those with little knowledge just getting into racing they are. Most of them are still working on getting the boat round a course rather than who is right or wrong. There are a lot of pitfalls which is why those who are more versed in the rules should seek to help educate rather than berate.

Out on the open circuit though you should know the rules much better (but it is surprising how many don't).

Originally posted by Brass



Originally posted by jeffers

and this is why upwind Stb mark roundings are usually best avoided unless you are team racing
 

Elvstrom didn't agree with this. Paul Elvstrom has always been a strong opponent of port rounding courses (Elvstrom Explains,Explanatory (Red) Section Rule 89.2) 

The disadvantage of port rounding is that a boat approaching on port tack, even though she may really be leading ... may not be able to round the mark and can drop many places. Also the tendency is to use only the starboard side of the course. 

With starboard rounding, a boat can always get round the mark by standing on a few lengths, but there are usually more protest situations.

In club situations, given my caveat above, they create far more problems but are sometimes unavoidable. My home club has Stb windward mark roundings usually at the end of the second beat and due to a limited sailing area. The experienced racers usually cope fine, those less experienced tend to suffer or get confused. if there is going to be an incident it is usually there.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 20 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by jeffers

The rules are a minefield


I don't agree with this. The rules are the rules: they create the game.

Originally posted by jeffers

and this is why upwind Stb mark roundings are usually best avoided unless you are team racing


Elvstrom didn't agree with this. Paul Elvstrom has always been a strong opponent of port rounding courses (Elvstrom Explains,Explanatory (Red) Section Rule 89.2)

The disadvantage of port rounding is that a boat approaching on port tack, even though she may really be leading ... may not be able to round the mark and can drop many places. Also the tendency is to use only the starboard side of the course.

With starboard rounding, a boat can always get round the mark by standing on a few lengths, but there are usually more protest situations.
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 20 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by Nacnud_smada

Originally posted by Rupert

If the port tack boat luffs and slows, chances are that the starboard boat will tack into the gap, allowing port to bear away again, so losing less ground than having to put a double tack in. Especially likely if starboard is defending from behind, too.



What will happen/has happened is the startboard tack boat always carries on sailing to make the port tack boat tack away.. As soon as this happens starboard then tacks back.. Regardless of port luffing.. Etc

Tacktics 101 there, gains you an advantage if you are S and P cannot easily duck you and still make the mark.

S cannot tack in front of P though as she may fall foul of rule 16 (Changing Course) and rule 13 (While Tacking). 

The rules are a minefield and this is why upwind Stb mark roundings are usually best avoided unless you are team racing.
Paul
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 20 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by Nacnud_smada

Originally posted by Rupert

If the port tack boat luffs and slows, chances are that the starboard boat will tack into the gap, allowing port to bear away again, so losing less ground than having to put a double tack in. Especially likely if starboard is defending from behind, too.



What will happen/has happened is the startboard tack boat always carries on sailing to make the port tack boat tack away.. As soon as this happens starboard then tacks back.. Regardless of port luffing.. Etc


Only if Starboard has no other threats, or is blind to them. Or just enjoys annoying people. Actually, every situation is different, and port will have just a few seconds to judge what starboard is likely to do.
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 20 at 1:08pm
As Port, on or above the layline you are in a strong position. If you can't cross S then you have two options, tack or duck. if you hail for Starboard to hold their course* and duck their stern, by the time they've tacked, a couple of lengths past the layline, you'll have that strong lee bow I mentioned** above. S has two options, either slow down so you have to tack or to tack into your lee bow. 

* No hail is necessary but it clarifies your intentions and reminds them of their obligations under Rule 16.

** And be RoW boat. It's not infallible though, if they can tack fast enough to avoid the lee bow and roll you on the next leg. 


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 28 Sep 20 at 1:13pm
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Posts: 50 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nacnud_smada Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 20 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Rupert

If the port tack boat luffs and slows, chances are that the starboard boat will tack into the gap, allowing port to bear away again, so losing less ground than having to put a double tack in. Especially likely if starboard is defending from behind, too.



What will happen/has happened is the startboard tack boat always carries on sailing to make the port tack boat tack away.. As soon as this happens starboard then tacks back.. Regardless of port luffing.. Etc
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Posts: 50 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nacnud_smada Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 20 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by Brass

It's a pleasure.

Hopefully you can encourage your friends at the club to take a look at the current rulebook <g>.


Hahaahha, that's is the plan..
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