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Demise of the Laser 4000
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 7:50am
I'd say that the Cherub even in those days would be faster than. a 200, by how much though is debatable. The 200 is a foot longer but a lot heavier and also carries less sail.

Is that enough to make it profitable to sail the angles? Jim's experience certainly indicates that it was, but was it only just? If it was only just you'd expect that from time to time a square running boat would get there first - and according to Jim they didn't.

I think it's looking like it might be "only just" about profitable for a 200 to sail the angles, but it works more often than it doesn't. It would be interesting to repeat some proper tests with 200 and also Guy Winders experiment with a Fireball. You would hope we've learned a thing or three in the 25 years that have passed since someone really looked at this is scientific detail in the public eye (I'm sure people have been playing on and off since then).
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 20 at 6:49am
That's better! I thought you meant now!
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 20 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by Rupert

1050? Even for a short boat, I can't see how that is right, its about the same as a Mk2 Comet Trio?


Not so generous these days though 

UK PY no. Classification Distinguishing Features 
920 2005 15.5sqm upwind area + 21 sqm Spinnaker. 
975 1997 Hull after 2672 with 12.5 sqm upwind area and 15sqm spinnaker. 
1000 Converted to 97 Hull meets 1990 rule with snout and/or 1.8m beam with “unfair” gunwale plan with 12.5m2 upwind and 15m2 spinnaker
1050 1990 Hull after 2635 or 12.5m2 rig, no snout and 5ft beam at mid length. 
1080 1984 Hull after 2550 or 125 sq. ft. rig. 
1100 2400 Hull after 2400 and 110 sq. ft. rig 
1115 1900 Hull after 1900, 110 sq. ft rig 120 sq. ft.conventional spinnaker. 
1140 Veteran Must have hull before 1900, 110 sq. ft rig,triangular or no spinnaker. 
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 20 at 9:11pm
Only if you can sail it!
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giraffe View Drop Down
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Posts: 148 		Post Options Post Options   Quote giraffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 20 at 9:02pm
Bandito!
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 20 at 8:55pm
1050? Even for a short boat, I can't see how that is right, its about the same as a Mk2 Comet Trio?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 20 at 8:46pm
so a 200 is off near as makes no difference the same PY but the boat is 30-35% heavier.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 20 at 6:23pm
50kg bare hull (normally in range 50-55), 13m2 and 1050.
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 20 at 4:38pm
Jim, what did a cherub weigh in those days, what was the spinnaker area and the approximate equivalent handicap?

I don't doubt what you say, it's just on paper what the others are saying about a 200 is right I think.
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 20 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by Mozzy

But what about the Merlin. When did they ban asymmetric kites? Did anyone use a asymmetric on a Merlin before they were made illegal? 

Would a merlin with asymmetric and bowsprit be faster round a course? And if it wouldn't, why did they ban it? 

As Jim says it was never legal as the spinnaker is required to be symmetrical around the vertical centreline.

An old 70's boat was converted and shown around the class at a Salcombe week in the early 90s but it did not find favour as many Merlin venues (Salcombe for one!) are not conjusive to sailing with an asymmetric kite. I don't know what ultimately became of the boat, but it was - I believe - Rowsell's own "pet" boat (A Satisfaction design that he restored for himself from write off condition after an accident) and went on to prototype some of the stuff for the 400.
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