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RYA Squad system Major Shakeup
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polc1410 View Drop Down
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Posts: 147 		Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RYA Squad system Major Shakeup
    Posted: 28 Feb 20 at 6:12pm
the challenge is trying to ensure the same number of kids are in some sort of squad after this change. As this only affects the RYA squads, there is nothing to stop the class association continuing, or even expanding their own National squads.

Or... The kids with the genuine ability get coached locally and so get a chance to improve even if travelling to Weymouth every other week was never an option, meanwhile the class squad - mummy and daddy can buy little Tarquin a place because he wasn't actually good enough for an RYA place.


Plus the above system only works if you have a pool of equally talented sailors in each region, with both numbers and depth of talent down the fleet

At the layer below gold medal Olympians I'd bet there is undiscovered talent fairly evenly spread and what you currently see is the talent that has been discovered because of increased opportunity in the South. There should be no genetic advantage of living near a load of radon gas on the south coast...
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Posts: 718 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamie600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 20 at 2:18pm
I think this change had to happen sooner or later. From the Topper squad point of view, the angle they are going with is they want to avoid kids spending longer in the car than they do on the water, which to a certain extent is true.

The challenge is trying to ensure the same number of kids are in some sort of squad after this change. As this only affects the RYA squads, there is nothing to stop the class association continuing, or even expanding their own National squads.

While it would mean that the number of squad members across RYA and class association squads could still remain the same, it will mean the best kids get regional training, and the less talented kids are the ones who have to travel up and down the country.

Plus the above system only works if you have a pool of equally talented sailors in each region, with both numbers and depth of talent down the fleet. My understanding is that the existing regions will be maintained, ie a Midlands and a North, so no opportunity to combine the non-South Coast sailors into one squad
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polc1410 View Drop Down
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Posts: 147 		Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 20 at 8:17am
I purposely chose running as a poor comparator because that is what Sports England will do when allocating money. I don't know but I'd assume athletics can get the same money, train more people, use less carbon and show more people at grass roots running through for instance park run.

At *top* level it isn't just against the clock.. how you perform with a crowd, in different lanes etc affects the result. But the variables are far less. The equipment to train is less. The team to train is less (you can go run alone now, I wouldn't let my 13 year old national level sailor go for a sail before school - mixture of how long it would take plus safety aspects.

So. 113/120. The question is WHY? Is that the rest of tassi are even crapper? Or is that a lack of experience of different venues etc? But what would make them better? Genuine Top coaching in tassi OR the same coaching in Sydney?

And which would increase sailor numbers in Tassi?
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Posts: 119 		Post Options Post Options   Quote salmon80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 20 at 12:28am
Originally posted by polc1410


If your child was a national level 800m runner would you put them on a flight from Newcastle to Southampton several times a year on a Friday afternoon ? Why? And if you did... Would your local running club be rightly disgruntled that their best runners were off at a training camp AGAIN so they weren't taking part in local events..

Running isn't a relevant comparison, that's a sport against the same clock for everyone you dont need to got to a meet to see where you sit in the pecking order. If you can do it in 1min 40 you'll win olympic gold

Sailing is an only beat whats in front of you sport. If you live in Scotland you might win everything but come last at national or european events. I live in Tasmania and our best laser sailor has just come 113th out of 120 at the worlds, wins everything here but is, effectively crap  
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Posts: 147 		Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 20 at 5:50pm
If you look 20, 30, 40 years in the future... If clubs fold because the juniors don't stay in the sport and the next generation of juniors parents are too busy driving darling child to an event ... There will be no club to capture the next generation of juniors to take through a squad system.

We might be the only summer Olympic sport that has such a geographical oddity in its national training location and so squad make up. I fully expect at some stage Sport England to be asking about demographics and asking 'why do you have no poor black kids from Newcastle'...

If you actually put the investment into the regions, you probably improve the whole region sailing not just the zone squad. Clubs will get venue hire, you will end up with better coaches spread nationally etc. Perhaps we will even see venues investing in facilities etc rather than everything being at Weymouth

Yes you will get loaded Mummy & Daddy who are living out their failed Olympic dream through their kids and will throw money at private coaches. I believe the RYA advise against it on the basis of two coaches give conflicting opinions.

If your child was a national level 800m runner would you put them on a flight from Newcastle to Southampton several times a year on a Friday afternoon ? Why? And if you did... Would your local running club be rightly disgruntled that their best runners were off at a training camp AGAIN so they weren't taking part in local events..
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 20 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by BarneyS

The RYA are pretty explicit about why they are changing the system in the announcement. 

For example they say they have an 
"ultimate goal of encouraging more young sailors to take up and stay in the sport."


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BarneyS View Drop Down
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Posts: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Quote BarneyS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 20 at 5:15pm
The RYA are pretty explicit about why they are changing the system in the announcement. 

For example they say they have an 
"ultimate goal of encouraging more young sailors to take up and stay in the sport."

and
"These changes have been devised to address challenges facing the sport including declining participation at club level, increasing regional disparity, an over-emphasis on results in junior age groups and the increasing costs and environmental impact of training and racing nationally at a young age."

I assume they've done an internal review of the current system and believe the goal of increasing lifelong participation will be better served by these changes. I really hope they are right (and that GBR still keep winning medals!).





Edited by BarneyS - 26 Feb 20 at 5:15pm
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 20 at 4:58pm
That thought did cross my mind. If the object is to create Olympic medal winners then the current system works reasonably well but if it's to increase lifelong participation then it's not succeeding.
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 20 at 4:24pm
Clearly a great system for creating medal winning sailors. But is my impression from the outside, that there is more than the average number ofpeople dropping out of sailing because of the pressure ?.

Or am I missing that the target is to create the podium sailors ?





Edited by ian.r.mcdonald - 26 Feb 20 at 4:25pm
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BarneyS View Drop Down
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Posts: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Quote BarneyS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 20 at 2:39pm

It’s definitely a big deal, and a major shake up to the system which will have implications for a lot of sailors, including one of my relatives who is in the current (last ever) RYA supported Optimist National Squad. For me, it feels like our family has gone full circle as I was in the first ever RYA supported Optimist National Squad way back in the 1980s. (Yes, that's last century for the younger amongst you!).

From my perspective I really hope the RYA have considered some of the possibly untended consequences of the changes. For example:

My suspicion is that the best, richer, sailors, will ignore the new system and still regularly travel the length of the country to quasi 'national' training camps run by professional coaching outfits (google 8 days a week). This will leave the better, poorer, sailors, to fight it out it the new regional training groups. Basically the rich will get richer (and probably better as they can afford the better coaches). nb Those of you in the know will be aware that a shift in this direction has been underway for a couple of years which I think could have been one driver in the RYA decision to stop the National squads.

The decision will also have a major impact on team building and development for attending major events, particularly those abroad. One of the great advantages of the present system is that those selected for national teams, from any part of the country, will have already spent time socialising and team bonding with team mates, and building relationships with coaches during residential winter squad camps. The new system removes these team building opportunities.

On the plus side there are is some eco/green logic behind the changes although I think we'd all struggleto argue that  the current system of international sailing, which is so reliant on flights, shipping and 1000s of mile of road travel towing dinghies and RIBs, is going to struggle to lower the carbon footprint. My biggest ironic laughter this winter was watching SailGP trumpet it's eco ambitions whilst simultaneously welcoming Team Ineos to the fold....It's not easy being green!

Finally I was rather stunned by the way the RYA phrased the press release....mangling the six English regions with other mentions of the policy being UK wide...If you're in Scotland or Wales, and to some extent NI, you're probably wondering "what does this mean for me?"  Smile








Edited by BarneyS - 26 Feb 20 at 3:21pm
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