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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Foilers
    Posted: 27 Oct 19 at 10:54am
Originally posted by Boatmik

Moths were on the edge of banning the foilers at the three pointer (tricycle) stage.


Too easy and throwing away hard earned boat handling skills.


It was uncertain if bifoilers would be sailable. Legend has it that the time the Australian committee was having a meeting Ian Ward had put together  a bifoiler to sail outside the club where the meet was happening ...

... and the rest as they say is (almost) history.



Funnily enough I was reading the Foilers v fakes article on your site the other day (and perusing all the interesting boat designs).

Tink - one along your three point foiler lines here http://foilingdinghy.com/ - looks pretty awkward with the bow up trim and not sure 13000 euros is 'people's foiler' territory...
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Boatmik View Drop Down
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Posts: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Boatmik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 19 at 5:50am
Moths were on the edge of banning the foilers at the three pointer (tricycle) stage.


Too easy and throwing away hard earned boat handling skills.


It was uncertain if bifoilers would be sailable. Legend has it that the time the Australian committee was having a meeting Ian Ward had put together  a bifoiler to sail outside the club where the meet was happening ...

... and the rest as they say is (almost) history.
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 19 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by tink

Not fully upwind but I think in illustrates my point 


Looks more like broad reaching looking at the water and sail trim. Syz & Co (think that's the boat) got lots of photos in the sailing press for a very short time and then vanished, which probably speaks volumes.

I think the three point foiling is a nice idea if you're just looking at going in a straight lines. Suspect with the moths that even if the 'piv' foils hadn't been outlawed that ultimately they'd have moved to centreline foils as a better solution for all points of sail.
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tink View Drop Down
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 19 at 5:30am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

The Moth's ruled that foiled mast be on the centreline immediately after the first 'three point' foiling moth was developed effectively outlawing foils mounted on the wings..
Thanks, I’d presumed that, interesting. Wonder where they would have ended up if they hadn’t done that everyone else followed their lead.

Clearly a T foil is better for out and out performance but not necessarily for a people’s foiler. 
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 19 at 10:02pm
The Moth's ruled that foiled mast be on the centreline immediately after the first 'three point' foiling moth was developed effectively outlawing foils mounted on the wings..
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tink View Drop Down
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 19 at 7:52pm
And costs as much as it does, I am just pointing out that there are other solutions other than wands and incidence control. One of the first foiling moths used this system. Yes they went a different direction but that could have been driven by fitting the concept into the class rules rather than the system. 
Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Posts: 37 		Post Options Post Options   Quote john80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 19 at 7:05pm
It is on a catamaran which makes quite a lot of difference. There is a reason a moth looks the way it does.
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 19 at 6:37pm
Not fully upwind but I think in illustrates my point 
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http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 19 at 5:48pm
This configuration was used on many record breaking craft from the 1950s until the recent past. The windward foil is naturally immersed more and a vertical portion on the foil tip is sometimes added. I simply presented a very simple configuration that is well proven and simple - which was my reading of the OP ‘ easier to sail platform like the Skeeter would make the boat more accessible to more 'normal' sailors‘
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Posts: 30 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bdu98252 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 19 at 10:06am
Originally posted by tink

VERY VERY basic sketch but, just showing the configuration.

Trapeze so can quickly adjust trim


In a sailing dinghy you need the foils to resist side loading if you want to go upwind with any efficiency. In this case if the boat is flat both sides are cancelling each other out which is fine for a power boat but not for a dinghy. If you heel it to windward then the leeward foil provides the side force and the windward one provides the lift. Given that this reduces the righting moment from the crew this is not a fast look. Also this is why the RS600 foiler did not work too well in that trapezing off a boat heeled to windward is not to easy or comfortable. Back to the drawing board I think.  
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