Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
RS moving to open development sails? |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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But what is market price? Generally a sail that wins stuff costs more to buy than one that doesn't. Materials and labour costs won't be much different, though.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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By The Lee ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 06 Aug 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 114 |
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The problem with maximum prices are you end up with two cases:
1. The maximum price is set above the market price thereby having no effect on the price 2. The maximum price is set below the market price thereby not enough sailing makers are willing to make the product to satisfy demand
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I guess it depends where the price cap is and how tightly controlled the design is. If the cap is too high and there is significant freedom then in reality this isn’t much different to any OD class. If the cap is too low and the design freedom is very limited this will result in the sails being mere commodities with no difference in price or design.
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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I would guess they will buy the buttons in bulk, I wont be feasable to order a button each time they make a set of sails.
The Laser buttons are actually from ILCA rather than the builder if memory serves and the pattern is fixed and supplied so no room for improvements (although Hydes were always favoured over Norths when I sailed Lasers) |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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I think with laser it's the builder who appoints the sail makers and provides buttons at a price. The sails don't go direct from loft to sailor so there is no incentive for the loft to do anything other than make cheap sails within tolerances. The button means class legal and royalty paid.
In the RS21 case local loft will be selling their sails direct to sailors. Thus there is a lot of incentive to provide your customers with faster sails. Surely in this case the button can't automatically mean class legal like the laser?
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KazRob ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Oct 16 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 245 |
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The GPs already use a maximum price sail model so if it works for them why wouldn't it work for others?
https://www.gp14.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Maximum_Prices_Dec-2017_web.pdf |
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OK 2249
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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I would guess the CA/RS supply the buttons so if it aint got one then it aint class legal (same as a Laser). Quite how that might work if an agreement gets terminated then the sailmaker will probably have a small stock of both cloth and buttons (the cloth is propriety and supplied by RS or under agreeement).
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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Class rules state a maximum price. But that's enforced by sailors, so they could pay more and not tell anyone? Would be pretty underhand.
I don't get from the article quite how 'bought in' each sail maker has to be. It could allow lots of smaller and local sail maker to service more difficult to reach locations. But that would depend on the minimum buy in (sail material i guess). Is the button to mark that a sail is class legal? Or just that the royalty has been paid? More measuring at events or a hell of a trust that individual sail-makers don't 'sign off' out of spec sails. It's good to RS trying new things, and this is definitely a new market for them. At the very least it means all the top pro's who are sponsored by various lofts can happily jump in the RS21 too.
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Their contract with RS who will terminate it meaning they cannot make class legal sails.
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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PaulPoshW ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 25 Jun 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 32 |
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What's to stop a sail maker with the fastest design (assuming tolerances are allowed) charging more than the max price?
Should the class take off and attract top teams surely they would pay an extra £ or 2 for the sails most likely to win. And why shouldn't a sail maker who has spent time and money to develop that get something in return? I wouldn't support this idea trickling into other RS classes. It may mean a more developed sail but it would only lead to price increases and out-dating boats/owners who don't have the money to spend on keeping up.
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