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| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Drop the discards? |
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 Topic: Drop the discards?Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 9:23pm |
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I think people want to put their best results forward. Whether it improves their end ranking or not, I feel many people, including myself, tend to go away from events feeling better having only our 'best' on the score sheet. Discards are likely good for customer satisfaction, even if on average they do nothing to improve a sailors standing.
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davidyacht
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Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 4:52pm |
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Probably why you often see the down the pan hotshots going deep on the first reach ...
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Happily living in the past
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 5:25am |
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We probably all agree that the "rabbits" are actually the most important people in the fleet, and are often a bit slower around the racecourse because they spend their time doing things that are better for society as a whole than sailboat racing. However, sometimes when a fast sailor is caught behind, there are some others who seem to make a point of slowing them down even at the expense of making both boats lose time. I've seen fast sailors specifically go high so they don't affect other boats down the reach, only for the slower sailor to come up several boatlengths and start luffing. They seem to be saying "well I only finished 80th, but at least I held Joanna Hotshot back to 81st for a leg". Since the front-end racers often make a point of sailing fast and clean, it can be rather galling.
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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salmon80
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Joined: 29 Nov 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 119 |
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Posted: 26 Aug 18 at 10:58pm |
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Maybe he was playing the 'chicken' |
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Dougaldog
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 05 Nov 10 Location: hamble Online Status: Offline Posts: 356 |
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Posted: 26 Aug 18 at 12:33pm |
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Well said Jim - that is a point that had to be made and made well. As I travel around to various events, increasingly I'm seeing that it is the middle fleet competitors who are staying away. Not so long ago I was at an event and in the bar afterwards, listened with interest to a well known star of the sailing scene bemoaning the actions of some mid-fleet sailors. After being called OCS (luckily on a P flag start) he'd gone back, restarted and was now keen to blast his way back towards the front of the fleet. Heading down the first reach (triangle-Sausage course) he went to sail over the top of some mid-fleeters (rabbits was one of the less abrasive terms he used for them) only to find himself being luffed up way above the lay line. These no-hopers, he declared, had spoilt his race! It was hard to feel any sympathy for him and that 'them and us' attitude, despite the fact that it is the 'them' in this situation, who by buying his products, where making his presence at the event possible! There is enough flexibility in the Rules for both - for those small, high profile fleet, by all means drop the discard but for the majority of the dinghy sailing community, leave things as they currently stand! D |
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Dougal H
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 26 Aug 18 at 8:49am |
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Excellent points. And I suggest that these apply even more so to the mid fleet competititors, who as I said above are not considered nearly enough in this sort of discussion. |
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Brass
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Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 25 Aug 18 at 11:54pm |
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With no discards, there is a significant emerging issue with rule 62.1a improper action requests for redress and shrill demands that starting lines and windward/leeward legs should be exactly true to the wind, down to the last degree, or that races be abandoned on all sorts of 'unfairness' grounds.
As long as there are discards, this is an acknowledgement that sailing racing is a competition in which random chance is an expected factor, and is comprehended within the rules.
Edited by Brass - 26 Aug 18 at 10:33am |
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 25 Aug 18 at 9:58pm |
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You're right, redress isn't a big issue and I shouldn't have brought it up. However, perhaps the limitations with redress illustrate the problems that arise when there are no discards. You can be completely in the right, and yet you can be capsized or otherwise interfered with and you have no real way of being put back in your rightful position.
The big issue is surely what would make sailing regattas more fun. I'd suggest that it's not much fun to travel across a country, continent or world and lose all hope of placing as you had hoped to, just because you were 1ft across the line or had one port tacker capsize on top of you. |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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RS400atC
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Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Posted: 25 Aug 18 at 6:33am |
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I can't see redress being a big issue. Few people get injured. Few rule infringements result in damage which significantly slows the boat. So for most 'protest' incidents no redress is available. And when the rules allow redress, the first two options in the guidance are fairly reasonable wherever you are in the rankings. There is a minor issue, if a boat scores 2,2,2,BFD,3,1 in a series with a discard, then gets holed in the last race, should the BFD be discarded from the points to give her a second as redress? 62.1 A request for redress or a protest committee’s decision to consider redress shall be based on a claim or possibility that a boat’s score or place in a race or series has been or may be, through no fault of her own, made significantly worse by (a) an improper action or omission of the race committee, protest committee, organizing authority or technical committee for the event, but not by a protest committee decision when the boat was a party to the hearing; (b) injury or physical damage because of the action of a boat that was breaking a rule of Part 2 or of a vessel not racing that was required to keep clear; (c) giving help (except to herself or her crew) in compliance with rule 1.1; or (d) an action of a boat, or a member of her crew, that resulted in a penalty under rule 2 or a penalty or warning under rule 69.2(h) A10 GUIDANCE ON REDRESS If the protest committee decides to give redress by adjusting a boat’s score for a race, it is advised to consider scoring her (a) points equal to the average, to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 to be rounded upward), of her points in all the races in the series except the race in question; (b) points equal to the average, to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 to be rounded upward), of her points in all the races before the race in question; or (c) points based on the position of the boat in the race at the time of the incident that justified redress. |
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 24 Aug 18 at 10:44pm |
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Oh come on, Jack. Not a single thing I said indicated that there was any split between "real sailors" and the rest. Everyone has a responsibility to know the rules that they are going to rely on, and how to keep a lookout. No one should expect to just be able to drive into the side of a boat, when the boat being rammed cannot get out of the way and is in the right - and yes in my last championship it happened twice. It is reasonable to be frustrated when one loses at least one place in the final standings, and probably the whole regatta, because of that sort of thing. I have put in one protest in my entire life, and that to decide a teams racing event and against a multiple national champ. I have only been protested twice and have never been DSQd, ever. When I ran a class association I created the idea of a "silver fleet" to encourage newer or less expert sailors, as well as a junior fleet, sub junior fleet and a class legal small sail. That's not the sort of thing anyone would do if they were not encouraging and respectful of sailors of all abilities. The point was that at the moment, if I'm hit and severely slowed by someone who is in the wrong I often sigh and say "oh well, there's my drop". If I had to count all races, that would not be an option. Edited by Chris 249 - 24 Aug 18 at 11:29pm |
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The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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