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Downwind sailing in a 'slow asymmetric'
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Wetabix View Drop Down
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Posts: 118 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Wetabix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Downwind sailing in a 'slow asymmetric'
    Posted: 08 Nov 17 at 9:21am
I bought Nick Craig's book. He is quite clear that if you are not planing you should soak. Of course you can almost always plane if you point up high enough but I guess once you are more than about forty degrees above DDW you won't be gaining anything except in a boat with a huge spinnaker. I suppose this answers my question? Hurrah!
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 17 at 7:26pm
Same issue with the Spice. The last published PN was 930, the CA caretaker Stuart Bailey recommended a PN of 950 being more reasonable as there were never enough returns to get the original EN altered and I suspect Topper suggested 930 in an attempt to make it look faster than it was.

With only 75kg onboard it is pretty sprightly in the light stuff  but I do ok in the Blaze in similar (and did on Raceboards too). Two up definitely slows the Spice down a bit in those conditions. I think the biggest difference crew weight makes is in the marginal stuff where you'll plane earlier if you're light.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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pondlife1736 View Drop Down
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Posts: 106 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondlife1736 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 17 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

We don't race too seriously but I was scored to the standard 930. I did not use the kite (not that it would have made any difference except to slow me down) and I sailed the following days race solo for continuity (the trophy was for the two races) though it was F3-4 which put me at a major disadvantage. I recorded a DNF in that race so nobody complained.  Wink

I had an ISO for a while, singlehanding, and was surprised that a boat regarded as 'draggy' in light winds actually went rather well with only 1 person aboard! It all got a bit too much in any wind though, at least for this catamaran sailor. 
If you sail a multi-hull (I expect the Weta is similar in this respect) you have to expect dismal light wind performance relative to the rest of the handicap fleet and maybe sail or do something else on those days. For me on the Dart, the threshold is about 7-8 knots minimum. On the other hand you can enjoy 20 knots plus and be reasonably confident you won't go swimming so it's swings and roundabouts......
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Wetabix View Drop Down
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Posts: 118 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Wetabix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 17 at 6:12pm
We don't have a Spice at the moment but if we did it would get the published PY if there is one. If there isn't one my guess is that it would get 950 as a trial number. We use PY where published with an increment of 30 for very slow boats to take account of adverse tide. Our problem is that we have a couple of National 8 Ultras sailing on an unpublished 'class recommended' 920, a Weta which has a published figure of 960 that doesn't work very well on windward/leewards and a K1 which is a keelboat and not actually eligible but it is unbeatable in 10 knots or so on a WW/LW.  Our weekly turnout has declined in recent years and there is a big divide in the ability level which means you can just about allocate the cups at the 5 minute gun. Still - I was sailing my boat this am in a temperature of 6 degrees and 5 knots of wind and no one else is likely to appear much before April. It is a superb recreational boat which can be enjoyed on many levels but I don't think I shall bother with racing in a mixed fleet next year.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 17 at 6:10pm
I argued that I would not use the kite to compensate Wink and was scored off 930. We don't take our racing too seriously and, as I sailed the following days race solo for continuity (the trophy was for the two races) in F3-4 and, as a consequence, recorded a DNF, nobody complained. I finished over a minute ahead on corrected in around 40 mins so I'm not sure if a 30 point penalty would have made enough difference and can't remember the exact times anyway.......

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 02 Nov 17 at 7:17pm
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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pondlife1736 View Drop Down
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Posts: 106 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondlife1736 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 17 at 5:29pm
Off topic, but out of interest, how does your club handicap you singlehanding the Spice?
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 17 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by Wetabix

Well thanks for all your interest, guys, - although none of you has actually answered the question ('is there a book....?). Things that do spring to mind are that you can't roll tack or roll gybe a trimaran so manoeuvres are expensive - every leg is likely to be a one gybe affair - and you can't pump a boat with no boom. I have got compasses and GPSs and Vmg calculators and the best Vmg is usually about 150 degrees TWA which is what you'd expect for a slow asymmetric. I think it's a lost cause - I shall put it down to experience and go and borrow a Laser with a masthead float!

A book or WHY will help you get the best out of the Weta but you'll still be sailing a boat optimised for stronger breezes. As you say you'll have to accept that light winds are not going to flatter the boat (and I suspect that applies to amy multihull). OTOH I sail a Spice, a sort of overweight (nearly)skiff with a huge asymmetric. I can't sail it particularly well in a blow (simple incompetence combined with the lack of a regular crew) but I did win a race on handicap last year sailing it singlehanded in a drifter.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Gordon 1430 View Drop Down
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Posts: 310 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 17 at 1:52pm
Try a certain Online available book from Clive (fab100 I think) who posts on here as a general improvement book.
Although I cant remember how specific it might be about your issue, as I was looking at it to improve my Phantom sailing.
If all else fails another wee dram.
Good luck
Gordon
Phantom 1430
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H2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 17 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Wetabix

I shall put it down to experience and go and borrow a Laser with a masthead float!

Which to be fair is what I recommended you did....although based on your other posts I would recommend swapping the Weta for a H2  Smile


Edited by H2 - 31 Oct 17 at 1:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 17 at 12:43pm
Ha, but my post is long enough that it could be a book!

Maybe post in the multi-hull section? In slow asymmetric dinghies a roll gybe is about the least costly manoeuvre imaginable so that greatly changes strategy from a tri. 

Nick Craig's helming to win is based upon considerable success in slow asymmetric, but dinghies. 

Andy Rice has a book on 'sailing asymetrics' but I've not read any of it, but the front cover mentions cats. 



Edited by mozzy - 31 Oct 17 at 12:56pm
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