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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Laser Nationals
    Posted: 07 Aug 17 at 5:21pm
Laser pricing was always a bit monopolist abusive, but since becoming an Olympic class the gouging has got far worse I'd say. Presumably as mummy and daddy happily will pay in order for little Johny to become the next Sir Ben, they make more profit that way than by selling more sails at a sensible price.

It's the same gouging in other 5-ring classes. A 470 will cost about £25k all up (suddenly the 505 price looks a bargain!) but because the IOC wants it to be "cheap", it has to be built in polyester resin, FFS, so rig tension destroys the hull after a few months. Contrast the Fireball from the same niche (single trap, 16ft-ish) that you can get built in decent materials and remains competitive for years for around half that sum.

Further evidence sailing would be better off outside the Olympics
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 17 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Iiticki, no need to stop posting, iGRF gets worse abuse than this on a daily basis.


True, but in all fairness I deserve it and indeed deliberately set out to provoke at times, iiitick however doesn't. Support the Laser by all means and understandably be bitter and twisted, because in doing so you are paying an absolutely outrageous and I would say unbelievably dishonest margin for a sail that costs less than 50 USD to build and £450 + for a carbon top section - seriously? Are you all mental?

You should long ago have banded together as a class and sorted the whole supply situation out, it's no wonder you get all shouty at poor old iiitick

Sanctimonious convicts from the other side of the world are seriously in no position to judge either the goings on nor the humour of Brits on a largely brit forum, their place should be on Dinghy Anarchy although I suspect they've been f**ked off from there long ago.

Edited by iGRF - 07 Aug 17 at 3:08pm
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 17 at 2:33pm
Surely it's simple - if you want to call people "misguided" and "backwards looking" then you cannot complain when others use similar language at you.
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Posts: 596 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 17 at 2:13pm
Wow - all this dredged up bile again - I only started the tread to say how surprised I was about the tiny number of boats at the National !

Its really not necessary to go over it all again - the Laser competition, racing numbers, accessibility etc etc etc speak for themselves.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 17 at 1:19pm
Iiticki, no need to stop posting, iGRF gets worse abuse than this on a daily basis.
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PeterG View Drop Down
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Posts: 822 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 17 at 12:54pm
 You have all leaped in to vociferously defend Laser! I did not instigate this post and all I did was indicate that Laser had had its day. 

Perhaps it has something to do with posting highly questionable personal views as fact, and imply anyone who disagrees is just out for a fight with you?
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iiiiticki View Drop Down
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Posts: 206 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 17 at 10:03am
Goodness! How did little old me and my insignificant opinion provoke such ire....from the other side of the World now! Apparently I am on a "self erected throne of wisdom", and "I criticise others and their choice of classes. Really?

Years ago this forum was an interesting and sometimes amusing exchange of sailing ideas. Contributors included young people and even women (God forbid). What is it now?

I will leave you to play with each other while I continue to support and promote a class that provides what a certain type of sailor is suited to rather than forcing them into something unsuitable.

Goodbye and "Thanks for all the fish".
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 17 at 1:04am
Originally posted by 423zero

Wikipedia, states Laser performance have effectively brought Sunfish production to an end.

I dug around the class site and they moved production to China and re-started it there. The class isn't doing well though, and according to AGM minutes one reason is that clubs are shifting to......Lasers.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 17 at 12:33am
Originally posted by iiiiticki

God you are all sensitive! You have all leaped in to vociferously defend Laser! I did not instigate this post and all I did was indicate that Laser had had its day. Of course lots of successful sailors began in Lasers what else was there for them to sail at that time? You are all looking backwards but there is a future you know. I never promote Byte as an alternative to Laser but it says what it does on the tin....fatty. And by the way my son has also won the Lightning 368 Nationals 4 times. Just sh*tty little classes I know compared to you grown ups of course.

Implying that the Lightning (now 40 years old, only about 8 years newer than the Laser) or the Byte (a baby Laser hull with a modified 1960s Moth-style rig) are "forward looking" seems pretty damn silly in a world where the real leaps in performance have left all these classes well behind, and the leading edge in design is now owned by kitefoilers. Oh, and if you really think that a class that sells sometimes as few as one boat per year and another class that sells 20 per year across the entire globe are "forward looking" and going to be the future then you are the misguided one.

It looks like no one here has criticised Lightning sailors as being parochial souls who want to be big fish in a tiny puddle, so why do you call those who prefer other classes and bigger challenges "misguided"?  If we're over-sensitive then you are rude and arrogant, as indicated by the way you sit there on your self-erected throne and tell others they are "misguided" and "looking backwards" rather than respecting what others choose to do. Surely it's fairly simple - if you don't want to cop criticism then don't sit on your self-erected throne of "wisdom" and criticise others and their choices and classes.




Edited by Chris 249 - 07 Aug 17 at 12:37am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 17 at 10:23pm
Lasers and Sunfish have been produced by the same company for longer than the current company has owned Laser.
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