Mainsheet systems and leech tension

   I've just reverted back to centre mainsheet on the 'nova, will race it on Wednesday and see what I think. Terrible race Wednesday gone, no boat speed so I'm removing as many variables as possible by setting the boat up by the numbers.

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Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Mainsheet systems and leech tension Posted: 07 Jul 17 at 7:44pm
	I've just reverted back to centre mainsheet on the 'nova, will race it on Wednesday and see what I think. Terrible race Wednesday gone, no boat speed so I'm removing as many variables as possible by setting the boat up by the numbers.
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 Jul 17 at 5:27pm
	Not noticed any issues with over sheeting, other than stated, that it will pull leech down, which is in itself over sheeting.

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 Jul 17 at 1:58pm
	I have all the controls led to the sides on the 'nova and Blaze apart from the forestay tension on the 'nova (not allowed on the Blaze). Your system on the MiniSprint looks like a 4:1 centre mainsheet (probably roughly equivalent to a 2:1 transom sheeted system) but with no traveller? How do you avoid over sheeting when you apply leech tension? Or is that not problem on the Sprint?
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 17 at 10:26am
	I have all controls fed to both sides, all work well, but still use mainsheet for final leech tension, works well on sprint. http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o587/aquabatdinghy/Minisprint%20rebuild/WP_20160130_13_47_49_Pro.jpg

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 17 at 9:00am
	My take is that on a una-rigged boat, centring the boom is a no-no, the best sheeting angle is to have the boom over the quarter or thereabouts when the wind is up and a bit closer to the CL in the lighter stuff. That is why I think a twin tail system won't work on the Supernova or Blaze (having a jib makes being able to centre the boom useful). As JC says some kind of traveller becomes essential unless you separate boom angle from leech tension and I have both the 'nova and the Blaze with a fixed laser style rope traveller across the transom. This works well on the Blaze (open transom) but less well on the 'nova with it's rear deck and low boom. However, if you don't use the mainsheet for leech tension upwind surely you need to be able to play the kicker in the gusts (requiring a system that is easily accessibly when hiking/trapezing at full stretch)? I've also heard of classes where you cleat the mainsheet and play the traveller in the gusts (at this point, in a singlehander I'm rapidly running out of hands)? Times change, when I bought the Spice the received wisdom was the mainsheet was set up to tighten the leech with it's last couple of feet of travel allowing you to dump power by allowing the leech to twist. Is that not considered fast anymore? On the Spice and Blaze the kicker controls twist/leech tension on all points except a beat where it affects twist only when I release the sheet to dump power in a gust. The Spice has a big fully battened main on a shortish, overweight hull and generates enough power to get me trapezing (sailing it solo) in 6 knots or so. It also has a hog stepped mast with a mast gate/swatcher rather than lowers. Edited by Sam.Spoons - 01 Jul 17 at 9:03am
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

Do Different Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312	Post Options Post Reply Quote Do Different Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 17 at 8:19am
	That makes a lot sense and simply put JC. As a possible point of of interest, another mono sail boat the Contender typically uses a lot of kicker / leech tension hardy ever sheets inside the quarter and points well. I hear the term "driving off the leech" a lot in this respect. Although I've been slow to embrace fully my two man class advocates kicker until your fingers hurt then a bit more until they bleed. When the breeze is in with crew on wire it certainly feels like it works, lower sheet loads, boom out to keep boat flat and still going and pointing at speed.

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 17 at 6:56am
	My feeling is I want the mainsheet to control angle of incidence and the kicker to control twist. If I try and get the mainsheet to do two things at once that won't work unless I add a further complication - a traveller - so I can have the boom at the correct angle when the mainsheet adds leech control. Using the mainsheet for leech tension also adds load on the mainsheet I can do without. To my mind, put very simply, with a modern gust responsive rig downhaul flattens the sail and controls the depower point, kicker controls twist and mainsheet controls sheeting angle, and its all fairly straightforward. Edited by JimC - 01 Jul 17 at 6:56am

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 30 Jun 17 at 11:30pm
	That's what I would prefer. Being 'old school' (I learned to sail in the '60s) the kicker was for off wind (well further off than close hauled anyway). But, TBF, we didn't talk about 'leech tension' back then, the kicker was there to prevent the boom rising high enough to allow a 'Chinese gybe" IIRC. Much later I had an early '60s Enterprise and the kicker was 3:1!!!!! I'm sure using the mainsheet as the power control is the simplest way, I'm just wondering why the Supernova 'fast guys' seem to advocate much more kicker upwind than the Blaze guys. Is it a quirk of the FB sail? I only use enough kicker to be safe off wind on the Spice (which has a FB mainsail), the mainsheet controls leech tension upwind and the kicker takes over from a close reach. I maybe should add I haven't raced a dinghy seriously since the mid '70s until last autumn when I bought the Blaze. Racing the Spice has been pretty low key for the nine years I have owned it so not much learning going on there.
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 30 Jun 17 at 10:24pm
	I sail Sprint using a estimated kicker setting, that I can if I want to adjust on the water, when beating Mainsheet pulls boom down and adjusts tension in the leech, kicker then takes over when mainsheet is eased.

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 30 Jun 17 at 4:37pm
	Thanks, I'll try to answer in order. Jeffers, Yes mainsheet arrangement is free on the 'nova and I believe at least one boat has used a transom bridle. You are right, the change to transom bridle and off the boom sheeting did indeed transform the Blaze. Laser, Yes, That's what I thought, It is documented in the Blaze tuning advice that kicker depowers the rig. JimC, I'm not expecting consensus..... it's a forum ;) just trying to avoid any obvious pitfalls. Presuming Ed, yes Blaze (and Supernova) has lowers but the Blaze fast boys still advise no kicker upwind. Fatboi, I use the mainsheet to control leech tension on the Spice, I like that I can ease the mainsheet to open the leech in the gusts to help keep the boat flat. As you say trying to do that with the kicker seems a bit unnecessary. The Supernova advice seems to be that kicker for leech tension upwind is the way to go, I've asked much the same question on the 'nova forum but it is not a very active place. I've had a reply that it's legal and one asking for pics........
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"