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New Designs and New Builds in 2017 to watch

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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Designs and New Builds in 2017 to watch
    Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 9:28pm
Maybe I'd get on well with an 800 then :). I bought the Spice after 30 years out of dinghy sailing (but I was racing Raceboards during that time) and found it quite manageable up to F5.

OTOH I have  a mate who has moved from a 505 to a 500 last year, his crew finds the 500 much more tippy than the 5oh. And another mate, 20 years my junior but of similar sailing ability, has bought a Musto and a 49er in the last two years. He's also in the enviable position of being able to hire a pro sailor/coach to teach him to sail them. He is far from mastering either, or even keeping them upright most of the time so far. I may get a sail in his Musto this year so I can get a handle on just how difficult they are but my capabilities are probably more Enterprise than 49er these days.

Not unsatisfied with the current 'fleet' though, Spice is still challenging in any amount of wind and if I had a regular, experienced crew........ Blaze will, hopefully, be a little more benign but I'm not expecting to be sailing anything more extreme with any success in the forceable future.


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 06 Jan 17 at 9:34pm
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 8:46pm
At the Phwelli nationals a father and son turned up with an 800 having just completed their RYA L2. While they were unusual to go for that boat as their first it does highlight that the 800 is reasonably docile.
The Spice is a far trickier boat to sail than the 800 in part due to being shorter.
I was given the loan of Wet and Windy's demo SPICE back in 1999 for the Topper Eurocup in Carnac but unfortunately there weren't enough Spices entered to run them. Only the ISOs Buzz's and Boss's got to play.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by rb_stretch

As soon as the crew needs to handle the mainsheet, then the boat can no longer be used by scratch, new, still learning crews.

Its up to the CA of course, but if you don't mandate anything then each crew can choose what suits them best. In my Cherub days some folk sailed one way, some the other. There was a partial consensus that forward hand taking the sheet was probably potentially marginally faster for teams with the appropriate skill levels, but the difference was certainly not world shaking.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 7:46pm
Never sailed one but the 800 does look a daunting prospect for an inexperienced team. I suppose few helms or crews would buy one without a fair bit of either single wire or big assy experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

I can't get on with the fact that the crew can't take the main on the 800 and the helm has to use the centre jammer and can't sheet it off the boom. I find it deeply awkward helming this way. So in that way the 800 doesn't work for me.

As for other twin wire (skiffs) -

UK Cherub (Pasta Frenzy, Bistro era)
or
Farr 3.7 if you are crew less (had to bring it up somehow)


But that is the very reason why an RS800 is a much more adaptable boat. As soon as the crew needs to handle the mainsheet, then the boat can no longer be used by scratch, new, still learning crews.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 7:33pm
You are a funny bunch. Optimist 1947 chine. Sunfish 1953 chine.
Chines can facilitate or enable construction from sheet materials. All things being equal a chine hull will offer more stability, but substantially more drag when immersed if doing sub planing speed or 12kts for a 14ft boat. Above 12kts they start to reduce drag if placed correctly.
Aero is basically geometrically similar to phantom (2 plank design) and lesser extent streaker and go slow (more "sophisticated 3 plank design) in order to facilitate construction from unscored foam, giving a low panel weight at the expense of some roundness where you want it for wsa reasons fwd, or ergonomics on cockpit. You can get some compounding into corecell with heat and or pressure. Even plywood if ever with how you stitch it and tOrture it.
Perhaps the interesting bit is reconciling classical compound double curvature shapes (need to be. Moulded or planked ) with chines to get the benefits of both worlds. No historian but suspect that began downunder some time around 1960.
My i14 has 2 chines both blending out in different places - one to form the kink at the rise of floor point midships like most 14s, the other to actually work hydrodynamically at over 12 kts, which eve in the 14 occurs only offwind really, so not the majority of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

I would like to think, but am open to correction, that the chines on quite a few boats, owe their existance to the Bethwaite Medium Dribbly design

Mark B's NS14 was certainly a very influential boat, not least for the Winston Churchill (and Fox!) principle - if you write the history its your story that gets accepted - but other people were doing similar things at the same time. Bruce Farr may have become known for leadmines, but he designed some very influential dinghies and was probably at least as important as the Bethwaite family.

Edited by JimC - 06 Jan 17 at 6:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

Sonny Levi's  innovation was more around surface drives not overall hull shape. Same could have been said about Fabio Buzzi. Highlights my point that innovation is the bits that go on and around hulls not the fundamental shapes. 

Chines were probably more a result of materials and simple designs many years ago, then  rounded bilge was the way to go. The Aero and Pogo yachts show they have pros (stability and power) and of course cons. An interesting note is the Aero and DZero. - Designed around the same time, with the same end customer but different drivers. One round, one chined, both good in their own ways.

Delta shape was a quite a lot different to the Ray Hunt designs which you refer to.

I would like to think, but am open to correction, that the chines on quite a few boats, owe their existance to the Bethwaite Medium Dribbly design ... and David Thomas was doing similar things with the Hunter 707 in 1995.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

<span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', 'Lucida Grande', 'Segoe UI', Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif; : rgb251, 251, 253;">Sonny Levi's </span> innovation was more around surface drives not overall hull shape. Same could have been said about Fabio Buzzi. Highlights my point that innovation is the bits that go on and around hulls not the fundamental shapes. 
Chines were probably more a result of materials and simple designs many years ago, then  rounded bilge was the way to go. The Aero and Pogo yachts show they have pros (stability and power) and of course cons. An interesting note is the Aero and DZero. - Designed around the same time, with the same end customer but different drivers. One round, one chined, both good in their own ways.


Hard pushed to describe the DZero as round bilged.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 17 at 12:40pm
From where I sit there's been and continues to be an awful lot of interesting new design, and the best boats are very different shapes to what they were even 15 years ago. The IC worlds are in Wales this year, and there should be a good deal of interesting new ideas and concepts to study in the dinghy park.
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