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How does the Streaker rig work

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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How does the Streaker rig work
    Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 2:45pm
Thanks guys, better understanding now.

I too remember gluing bits of wood to my OK mast one weekend and planing it off the next according to what my dad's rudimentary mast bend measurement rig told us.......
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 2:22pm
Slack Blaze rigging ?

No great secret ... the M7 is/was a great mast .... and particularly for the 470 and Fireball.  For the Blaze and I suspect a number of other single-handers it is/was way too stiff.  Slacker rigging can help as does slacker lowers and later on we also adopted articulated (swiveling) spreaders.  It is an advantage in terms of sailing by the lee ... the Blaze main is a high aspect design with 3 adjustable full width battens up the top.  So you do want to sail by the lee ?  Just ease the kicker offwind a tad and the top of the sail goes a long way forward - articulating the spreaders in addition means the leeward one can also 'go forward' and this helps further still.  The M7 is usefully light for an alloy mast btw.  All this has been known since Noah was a  spotty squaddie ...

The real advantage of a stayed mast is you can set it up very easily for a very wide range of helm weight.... using just the one standard suplied mast - and they can be both light and low drag as support triangulation is naturally so much better than for an unstayed rig.   The diameter can be less, the wall thickness less and so on.   In unstayed classes that allow it it really really helps to have the mast stiffness and therefore construction 'matched' to the helms weight and height - ie tailor made for 'you'.  This really is one instance where one size does and cannot really be made to fit all optimally ! Stayed masts can also very easily be adjusted to suit - unstayed have the stiffness characteristics built into the mast walls - so are bloody difficult to then change if made  of alloy/carbon.   Though there are some devious methods if you have the right 'facilities' if not strictly legal in 'off-the-shelf' classes. (As teenagers we used to plane and sand wooden OK masts down to 'suit' - and even sometimes too far- even if it was allowed !)  Modifying one-design unstayed carbon masts once made is much more difficult of course  ;-)


Edited by Cirrus - 15 Nov 16 at 2:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 2:00pm
What would definitely make more sense would be on single sail setups, the spreaders raked forwards, not only to permit the boom to go forward, but to control and vary the effect of the kicker.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ifoxwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

but I'm also curious as to why sloppy rigs work on  the Blaze (which has a deck stepped mast and lowers).
On the Blaze, the Ali M7 mast is just way stiffer than most people need. So when you run the rig loose the spreaders have much less influence, it lets the middle of the mast move forward and to windward in the gusts which in turn depowers the middle of the sail and lets the top twist off to leeward, spilling wind. 

Crude but effective and one of the many reasons that I prefer a mast with spreaders, it just gives you more tuning options. In an unstayed rig the only person who has control of the stiffness of the mast is the builder....

And now we get to the real reason for posing the question, how much control does the sailor really have over the stiffness of the mast and how much is just down to the builder. And yes yes I know we can influence it with kicker and Cunningham etc but its not the same thing.

Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ardea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 12:50pm
Ian99's reply is a much neater way of saying what I was attempting to get at.  Also to follow on from JimC, the the wires not only allow a thinner and lighter mast, but also a lighter mast step and deck construction.  Whilst strengthening the mast support or mast with today's materials and tools might be possible without adding significant weight it would have been very tricky, if not impossible to do that at the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by ifoxwell


Hi Jim. I get your whole post and that understanding was the driving force behind the question. In a normal stayed/spreader rig the tension can affect this interaction and thus give you control over whats happening.

So although you say 

Originally posted by JimC


So a single sail boat without spreaders has a lot more options for how tight or loose the rigging is.

on one hand that makes sense but my question is really to what end? Ian99's reply has come closest so far to something I follow but I still wonder if I'm missing something. 

Ian



Interesting discussion, I noticed the extremely sloppy shrouds on the Solos on Sunday and was curious. I sort of get what Ian99 is suggesting too but I'm also curious as to why sloppy rigs work on  the Blaze (which has a deck stepped mast and lowers). I'd have thought that would work differently but haven't worked out why? After 9 years of sailing the Spice with it's high tension rig setting up the Blaze rig so slack seem wrong (but I know it is supposed to be fastest). Time to watch Ian F's Blaze walk through vids again ;)


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 15 Nov 16 at 12:06pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 12:00pm
Don't forget the wires permit a lighter and thinner mast and the ability to alter the bend characteristics without gluing on or shaving off carbon. The reduced weight in particular makes the boat more user friendly to sail and rig.

Spreaders are a very effective way to control mid mast bend - cheap, light and low windage compared to alternatives.

Edited by JimC - 15 Nov 16 at 12:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 11:49am
Originally posted by JimC

... (double diamonds?). ... 

Showing your age there, Mr.C 😀
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 11:38am
Some questions
Originally posted by JimC

Rig tension is needed with spreaders, because if there's none they do nothing.

Trapeze boats with spreaders tend to need ultra high rig tension, because weight on the trapeze unloads the windward shroud, reducing the effectiveness of the spreaders.
So why not run a trapeze wire over the spreaders?

In a spinnaker boat there will also be considerations about spinnaker induced mast bend, and especially inversion if the hoist is significantly above the hounds.
What are 'hounds' I've heard about these before but never have figured what or where they are?


Double spreader rigs march to a bit of a different drummer, especially those where the caps are brought back to the mast so are effectively sort of diamonds. (double diamonds?).

So a single sail boat without spreaders has a lot more options for how tight or loose the rigging is.



I'd always assumed that shrouds and spreaders other than the obvious task of holding the sticky up pole up were another necessity of aluminium masts which tend not to return too well if bent, unlike Carbon so largely an historic and unnecessary feature of modern una rig boats and a positive disadvantage as witnessed by my Solution which I'm convinced would perform so much better with an EPS style carbon set up as indeed would the Streaker.

All that Gubbins was also required because the mast bend/ luff curve mismatch means of creating twist could never fully be employed using aluminium so you guys buggered about with various settings to alter the mast bend and top twist as best you could, then along comes a spinnaker and creates lots of other issues, but Streakers don't have kites, so surely don't need spreaders?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 10:58am
TBH I've seen so many theories about tighter or slacker rigging on single sail boats over the years, many contradictory and all seemingly backed by race results that I hesitate to offer any conclusions or even suggestions.
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