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So Class Racing is clearly in serious decline, but

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    Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 1:22pm
I've not done the 200 nationals the last couple of years. It's not because the social, sailing or venue weren't to my liking, but simply we've been buying a house and getting married. 

We did Chichester Race week this year (FED) which had 60 200's. 

I've not really done circuit events since 2010/2011 though. This is less of cost issue but more of a time issue. I can sail at my home club or cycle with minimum fuss. If there wasn't decent club racing though I'd probably still do circuit events.  


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Dan Vincent

There is definitely decline in the two leading junior classes, and Optimist and Topper class experts may be able to highlight why,  but maybe they have dropped back to sensible numbers?  

There was a rise in all junior classes in early 2000s with lottery funding and Volvo. 

The was a drop off in Cadet and Mirrors in the mid to late 2000's but outweighed by the rise in topper and oppies (even counting sailors rather than boats). 

Since 2010, Feva, Teras and the new topper rig somewhat cancel out.   

However, overall junior sailors peaked in 2010 -2011 with 1400+ sailors. 2015 was 1152 and 2016 1044.

However, the upper age for RYA squads in topper reduced to 14 somewhere around 2010, from 15. So you'd expect to see less sailors in junior classes and more in youths. 

However, I can't see a corresponding increase in youth numbers for post 2010 (however it's impossible to distinguish youth laser and radial sailors from adults... maybe look at youth national results?)

... a lot of kids drop out at the junior to youth transition, so maybe they're just dropping out earlier now? 

 


Edited by mozzy - 15 Nov 16 at 1:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 16 at 7:39am
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by Chris 249

.....
Where is gets interesting is doing international comparisons, which is probably of no interest to most here......


Personally I think international comparisons are quite valuable, as the UK market is perhaps distorted by SMOD manufacturers, the RYA and a mixed legacy of  history. Not to mention an economy which is different for the younger generation compared to the recent past.
If we see what's going on abroad, we might be able to separate some of this from the real changes in dinghy sailing.
Or we might find somewhere nice to retire to....

Well then, since you said that....it looks like the US dinghy national title fleets have dropped around 9% since 2007-2012. That's a sample of 27 major classes but not taking into account the junior classes, or all of the youth and masters.  Given the mood of doom and gloom around sailing in the USA, that seems quite healthy.

I've still got to grind through Aussie numbers. They don't look too pretty, despite the strong economy, but that's just eyeballing stuff.

I'll put the detailed US info up on the blog over the next couple of days.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 16 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

.....
Where is gets interesting is doing international comparisons, which is probably of no interest to most here......


Personally I think international comparisons are quite valuable, as the UK market is perhaps distorted by SMOD manufacturers, the RYA and a mixed legacy of  history. Not to mention an economy which is different for the younger generation compared to the recent past.
If we see what's going on abroad, we might be able to separate some of this from the real changes in dinghy sailing.
Or we might find somewhere nice to retire to....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by JimC

Can anyone point to any other classes where the Masters Nationals seems to severely impact the turnout at the regular Nationals and a similar adjustment should be made?

The Finn had four sailors who did the Masters but not the regular UK nationals, which wasn't really significant given that we're dealing with 60+ boats. 

Where is gets interesting is doing international comparisons, which is probably of no interest to most here. I'm just updating the US nationals attendance table that Roger Jolly used to run. As you may recall, Roger ignored the Youth and Junior classes in his tally. When you add those classes in, it underlines the strength of the US habit of having big fleets of youth racing in 200kg 16 footers as a separate division to the Open fleet, and also of having significant numbers of adults race in 8ft pram dinghies as a separate division to the Youth. It's quite odd in some ways but in one place where the "kids in old peoples' boats" thing is done, the inland lakes, there seems to be a high proportion of people who stick in the sport. Maybe it actually works?


PS - going through the Finn entry lists I came across a member of the sailing media who has been banging on for decades about the fact that people should sail multis and "extreme" boats and not ageing mainstream monos. It turns out that he owns a Finn and another mainstream mono - yet another case of someone shouting "do as I say, not as I do" to sailors.



Edited by Chris 249 - 11 Nov 16 at 11:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

One of the joys of our sport is the ability to turn up and race against the best, so I am more than happy to race against the "professionals", gives you particular joy if you beat them.
I have spent over 40 years racing, and at most prizegivings have wondered if the glassware goes down to 4th, 5th or 6th ... often one place above my result.  Rather than swap around to easier fleets, I have found it more interesting to chase where the competition is or the hot fleets of the time, even if one could not clean up; imo this has been a lot of fun.
I don't think that many of the sailmakers and boatbuilders that I know have more time than keen club racers do, they just know how to get the best out of their equipment and available time ... in any case many got into the business because of their enthusiasm for the sport.
My experience is that most of the sailmakers and boatbuilders are friendly types who are happy to share their knowledge if you ask ... and in the Solos will be willing to turn up at your club and offer coaching and tuning advise ... filling a void in our sport imo.
The phemomena that is harder to deal with is the professionals from the Olympic squad system, these guys have increasingly way more time than we do, and have coaching resources that we can only dream about; and the cards are seriously stacked against us when they turn up.
However there are quite good bragging rights when you can say to your non-sailing mates that you were competing against Olympic medalists ... which most of the Merlin fleet can say.
Bang on.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 11:55am
Originally posted by davidyacht

One of the joys of our sport is the ability to turn up and race against the best, so I am more than happy to race against the "professionals", gives you particular joy if you beat them.

Yup :)

I don't think that many of the sailmakers and boatbuilders that I know have more time than keen club racers do, they just know how to get the best out of their equipment and available time ... in any case many got into the business because of their enthusiasm for the sport.

Yup and they are also mostly the smaller businesses I mention though there are exceptions.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 11:27am
One of the joys of our sport is the ability to turn up and race against the best, so I am more than happy to race against the "professionals", gives you particular joy if you beat them.

I have spent over 40 years racing, and at most prizegivings have wondered if the glassware goes down to 4th, 5th or 6th ... often one place above my result.  Rather than swap around to easier fleets, I have found it more interesting to chase where the competition is or the hot fleets of the time, even if one could not clean up; imo this has been a lot of fun.

I don't think that many of the sailmakers and boatbuilders that I know have more time than keen club racers do, they just know how to get the best out of their equipment and available time ... in any case many got into the business because of their enthusiasm for the sport.

My experience is that most of the sailmakers and boatbuilders are friendly types who are happy to share their knowledge if you ask ... and in the Solos will be willing to turn up at your club and offer coaching and tuning advise ... filling a void in our sport imo.

The phemomena that is harder to deal with is the professionals from the Olympic squad system, these guys have increasingly way more time than we do, and have coaching resources that we can only dream about; and the cards are seriously stacked against us when they turn up.

However there are quite good bragging rights when you can say to your non-sailing mates that you were competing against Olympic medalists ... which most of the Merlin fleet can say.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 9:41am
The 'sponsored sailor' phenomena is not a new thing, back in the late '60s there was a GP called 'Leedinstor' (spelling if anybody remembers the boat) owned/sponsored by Leigh Dinghy Store (the originator of the line that became 1st Mark). The shop's then manager raced the boat with some success and the name was the only 'advertising' allowed (and that had to be somewhat disguised). I suspect some of the current crop of guys get the opportunity to devote more time to training and racing than others (and Leedinstor's skipper) who work for/own small/one man businesses and have to work 6/7 days a week most weeks just to turn a profit.

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 11 Nov 16 at 9:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 9:09am
Do too many, and too good, jockeys hurt class Opens (class events)?
Over the last four years I have attended between 20 & 30 class open meetings up and down the country. Of all the events that have attended there must only have been 3 or 4 different winners overall all sail company/sailing business backed. 
I know my place is firmly in mid fleet, and know that challenging for the top places unless extreme luck or fortune intervenes is way beyond us (we have had a 2nd place a few years ago, all the local livestock were pinned to their enclosure fences the wind was that strong). Is this the case in all classes? Looking at our National Circuit last year, there are one or two events that counted where the Circuit Winner would have to have seriously have tried to have not finishedin the top 2. 
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