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fudheid View Drop Down
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Posts: 241 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fudheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Spinnaker coatings
    Posted: 25 Feb 16 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

1) Are the class rules open or closed?

2) Who/what is the arbiter for measurement questions and interpretations? Official class measurer/RYA/WS or what? 

Don't really see how an answer given here has any weight at all.

well the first query was closed rules hence the we think it might be illegal. On checking further we found that sail coatings aren't mentioned nearly anywhere, either in RYA, WS or ERS.....
In fact we found that quite a few closed class rules champions were quite open about using sailkote or similar on their olympic sails or star class sails.....

So if closed rules and an RYA class it is any RYA measurer or IHC.  Does it matter who the arbiter is? if the rules don't specifically mention sail coatings then they are illegal? even if you buy them like that from the sailmaker (specifically Contender dynakote, gets a treatment after manufacture - not an impregenated finish).

How any measurer would be able to tell that a finish has been added after i have no idea. Now we supply Ultramar and they have a better product than the silicon, is it allowable? i get the feeling that no class has ever thought about it before (the fella who asked me is a bigger pedant than i!)

I sailed a strict one design assymetric class and the whole fleet got the kites coated or fabsil'd them after purchase from hydes. so an additional finish / protection /polish. Looking back as the rules were closed we were all cheating or were we?


Edited by fudheid - 25 Feb 16 at 3:51pm
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 16 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

1) Are the class rules open or closed?

2) Who/what is the arbiter for measurement questions and interpretations? Official class measurer/RYA/WS or what? 

Don't really see how an answer given here has any weight at all.

It is a forum, as in for discussion.

I agree recoating sails is fine but if a class specifically disallows a certain coating then it is an open and shut case.
Paul
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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 16 at 11:18am
1) Are the class rules open or closed?

2) Who/what is the arbiter for measurement questions and interpretations? Official class measurer/RYA/WS or what? 

Don't really see how an answer given here has any weight at all.
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fudheid View Drop Down
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Posts: 241 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fudheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 16 at 10:47am
Originally posted by andymck

Spinnakers come coated. So having had a discussion with my sailmaker there is no point in getting a new fast spinnaker done. What the coatings do is prolong the life of those top of the fleet cast offs and training spinnakers to make them easier to use.
I quite openly get mine done. Not my open meeting kites as they are new. But as soon as they need replacing, and it prolongs their useful life. No one has ever complained or protested. Only asked who I get to do it do they can send theirs too. Seeing a kite that the week before was a wet rag slide effortlessly from the sock and shed water is all you need to see to be convinced. It is also not very expensive.
Anything that prolongs the length of usefulness has to be good.

Andy McKee

Ps I send mine to Scam at Suffolk sails. rejuvenated Musto Kite still good after 2 seasons use. Much better than do it yourself waterproofing.

thanks Doc! 
the query is that a strict one design was offered the process and it bought up the fact that a sail was outlawed because it had been painted (not sure if it is true or not).
Some classes outlaw certain cloths and certain sailmakers use a cheaper ripstop that only has a pu coating and not silicon, then get the sails silicon coated after... so depending on which sailmaker you use you might  be altering the characterstics of the cloth.
Just for once this tin of worms isn't mine!!
PS scam is a nickname LOL!! Simon @suffolksails 
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andymck View Drop Down
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Posts: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 16 at 10:38am
Spinnakers come coated. So having had a discussion with my sailmaker there is no point in getting a new fast spinnaker done. What the coatings do is prolong the life of those top of the fleet cast offs and training spinnakers to make them easier to use.
I quite openly get mine done. Not my open meeting kites as they are new. But as soon as they need replacing, and it prolongs their useful life. No one has ever complained or protested. Only asked who I get to do it do they can send theirs too. Seeing a kite that the week before was a wet rag slide effortlessly from the sock and shed water is all you need to see to be convinced. It is also not very expensive.
Anything that prolongs the length of usefulness has to be good.

Andy McKee

Ps I send mine to Scam at Suffolk sails. rejuvenated Musto Kite still good after 2 seasons use. Much better than do it yourself waterproofing.
Andy Mck
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 16 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Doug.H

It's your boat, you paid for it, and if you want to coat your sails with something just go for it.  If you want to give your kite a bit more life, it's your kite.  


But if you race with other people under the RRS then breaking class rules is cheating, which sounds as if its what the OP is trying to avoid. If all you do is cruise round the bay do what you like.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 16 at 11:16pm
It's your boat, you paid for it, and if you want to coat your sails with something just go for it.  If you want to give your kite a bit more life, it's your kite.  
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 16 at 5:50pm
More likely the coating will bring a sail back to nearer what the original characteristics were.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 16 at 4:04pm
You would fall over on this though:


Rule 26 a: Repairs and preventative maintenance to the sail, hull, deck, centreboard, rudder, mast, boom or any fittings and fixings may be carried out without violation of these Rules provided such repairs are made in such a way that the essential shape, characteristics or function of the original are not affected

As the coating may alter the characteristics over what it would have been originally. 


Edited by jeffers - 24 Feb 16 at 4:05pm
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PhilHigh View Drop Down
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Posts: 8 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PhilHigh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 16 at 3:51pm
You could probably class spinnaker coating as coming under maintenance.  A quick look at the laser rules suggests coating the main could be fine.

Rule 26 a: Repairs and preventative maintenance to the sail, hull, deck, centreboard, rudder, mast, boom or any fittings and fixings may be carried out without violation of these Rules provided such repairs are made in such a way that the essential shape, characteristics or function of the original are not affected

Rule 26 f: The use of lubricants is unrestricted except that they shall not be used on the hull (below the gunwales)
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