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First singlehanded trapeze skiff
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Oli View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Jul 16 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Oli

And indeed adding in the fact these are "one design" craft and so may only be sailed in a one design fleet and not part of a handicap fleet at all,

?? Don't understand. 

mean that they will be sailed and raced one design and the py return wont wholly reflect their sailed numbers and therefore potential popularit.


Originally posted by Oli

could a ratio be worked out also for class events? Then some clever maths wizard could look at the two ratios and work out an actual "class popularity" number.  Im sure the data is out there to mine...

Sales figures are very hard to figure out, next to impossible for some classes.   I've never come up with something I had any confidence in. And then there's the question of how to allow for boats no longer active, or even in existence. 

could start with sail numbers in blazes (d-ones more tricky) and go from that, just need to know the starting number

I don't think it would even be very practical to calculate how many boats of a class do open events... 

why not, take the total number of competitors and divide by the number of events, yes a very crude method, and one that would need to be tailored so that only national events and not regional are included.
I think if one totalled up Nationals competitors and, where held, Masters and Junior Nationals competitors that, alongside the PY returns, might be as good an index of popularity as one might get readily.

Personally i think class associations should be gathering this sort of data anyway, it can only help with creating better tailored events.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 16 at 10:22am
Looks like a cheapish way to learn to solo trapeze on a more stable boat. Especially if you have a blaze already or pick up a cheap one.

Some of the new boats in the  market must have hit boats like this, but it's still a unique option and I hear that Hartleys already have a good order book for next year so if their approach to the Supernovva gets repeated I am sure it will flourish again trap or no trap, kite or no kite.
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 16 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Oli

And indeed adding in the fact these are "one design" craft and so may only be sailed in a one design fleet and not part of a handicap fleet at all,

?? Don't understand.

Originally posted by Oli

could a ratio be worked out also for class events? Then some clever maths wizard could look at the two ratios and work out an actual "class popularity" number.  Im sure the data is out there to mine...

Sales figures are very hard to figure out, next to impossible for some classes.   I've never come up with something I had any confidence in. And then there's the question of how to allow for boats no longer active, or even in existence.

I don't think it would even be very practical to calculate how many boats of a class do open events...

I think if one totalled up Nationals competitors and, where held, Masters and Junior Nationals competitors that, alongside the PY returns, might be as good an index of popularity as one might get readily.


Edited by JimC - 15 Jul 16 at 6:08pm
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 16 at 5:04pm
well the Blaze advantage is that there was already a number of legacy 'topper blazes' out there just needed a tart up and (probably) a new sail.  The other two seem to rely on immediate sign up to get take off.... boom / bust model on both counts; compared to the progressive development of the Blaze with a 'natural order' of feeder boats.  

Anyway, my point is, it's important to acknowledge when someone had the right idea, even when you might have once disagreed with them- stood firm in the face of what seemed quite sizeable pressure (innovate or die speak back then) and came out the other side of it with clearly a better product proposition for the future.  
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Posts: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 16 at 4:44pm
TT a true(ish) way to reflect that point of view (and i'm in no way disagreeing) but i wonder if anyone cares to calculate the ratio of boats sold in the uk to the number of py returns, a slightly more accurate measure of popularity perhaps? And indeed adding in the fact these are "one design" craft and so may only be sailed in a one design fleet and not part of a handicap fleet at all, could a ratio be worked out also for class events? Then some clever maths wizard could look at the two ratios and work out an actual "class popularity" number.  Im sure the data is out there to mine...
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 16 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

Looks fun ... nothing wrong with it at all as is being discussed elsewhere people should play and experiment, sail anything offered and play around. 

But I still think we have been proven right in keeping the Blaze family 'single sail' ....   despite all the  'on-trend opinions' offered at the time here - from memory mostly from those sailing in other 'on-trend' classes themselves ....

..... Many eventually voting with their feet and getting back into single sail boats themselves !   LOL 

guilty.... but don't blame consumers for getting caught up in a fad, Nokia were popular once too....  and al they offered were snap-on covers and 'snake' to pass the time when constipated.  

And worth looking at some figures to back you up....  

Blaze returns on PY are over double that of the D-One and both RS100 iterations combined.

So yep, you were right.  Asymmetric Blaze would have probably flopped ultimately, and lost you your loyal following when both proponents of asymmetric hiking single handers subsequently brought out (more successful and better boat) unarigs.      
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 16 at 3:14pm
Looks fun ... nothing wrong with it at all as is being discussed elsewhere people should play and experiment, sail anything offered and play around. 

But I still think we have been proven right in keeping the Blaze family 'single sail' ....   despite all the  'on-trend opinions' offered at the time here - from memory mostly from those sailing in other 'on-trend' classes themselves ....

..... Many eventually voting with their feet and getting back into single sail boats themselves !   LOL 


Edited by Cirrus - 15 Jul 16 at 3:19pm
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Re:- The Halo above
Good God.... iGRF incoming any moment peeps.......

Personally speaking I would stick a mizzen on it too.


Edited by Pierre - 15 Jul 16 at 2:32pm
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Posts: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Quote loloma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 16 at 11:14am
Hello,

A nice video from a french sailor (Gaston 64) trapezing the Halo with a gennaker Wink Wink Wink



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcTeqQzB-X0&feature=youtu.be


Edited by loloma - 15 Jul 16 at 11:40am
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 16 at 4:25pm
A Blaze with trapeze ?

Might offend a few class traditonalists ... but no reason why it would not work.  I'd set the wings on the narrow setting and use it with an alloy M7 which many older boats still carry.   Would be v.simple to experiment.  It would fly with either the regular 10.4m sail or the 11.5m (Halo) one.

But if you are relatively tall remember the boat is 2.48m wide with wings extended anyway- how much leverage would you want/need ?  btw the last two champions have been 17 year old and a 26 year old.  Both on the tall/lean side - 6'3" and 6'8" you should v.easily plane upwind anyway.

Of the established trapeze boats coupled to a modest budget and all other factors introduced .. I'd go for a half decent Contender.  Good competition, stable used market (makes getting 'in' and eventually 'out' of the class much less hassle), excellent for trapeze experience without too much drama, especially in decent breeze and if you get good true international competiton at just about any level. 

 
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