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Modern symmetric two-hander?
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Modern symmetric two-hander?
    Posted: 03 Nov 15 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by maxibuddah

thinking my d-one could be going the same way??


n'ah you'll be okay, there's a decent group of them down the SW isn't there? 

Yeah there is. I meant that I would lose money on it (blooming exchange rate) and I would love it all the same. Very good fun boat, but not so convenient for those wanting space for two.

The only metric I have to go by is from my small area where two man boats have fallen away due to inconvenience of ensuring that both crew are available all the time. It isn't always about the money as because of the above there are plenty of two person boats available on the market cheaply.
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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iiiiitick View Drop Down
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Posts: 240 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 15 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

at the time i thought my rs300 fell into the same category tick. loved owning and sailing it every minute. cost me a lot in depreciation but don't regret it. bits didn't fall off it though, very well built craft.

thinking my d-one could be going the same way??

My mind was on a rather newer very lightweight RS class!
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 15 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

thinking my d-one could be going the same way??


n'ah you'll be okay, there's a decent group of them down the SW isn't there? 
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 15 at 2:51pm
at the time i thought my rs300 fell into the same category tick. loved owning and sailing it every minute. cost me a lot in depreciation but don't regret it. bits didn't fall off it though, very well built craft.

thinking my d-one could be going the same way??
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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iiiiitick View Drop Down
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Posts: 240 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 15 at 11:46am
I wonder if the pleasure of the moment is more important than long term future or investment potential?
Many years ago I bought an almost new Afasud 1.5 Ti. A fantastic car and the most responsive car I ever owned. After a couple of years of bits falling off it was worth about as much as a prawn sandwich. I have never regretted the experience. Could there be boats out there that fall into the same category?

Names are omitted to prevent legal vulnerability.
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skslr View Drop Down
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Posts: 139 		Post Options Post Options   Quote skslr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 15 at 9:55am

Kind of "after the fact", but anyway...

My dinghy of choice should get a smile on my face even if there was no single boat to sail against.

For “a smile on my face” a dinghy needs to be “responsive” and without major vices/annoying things. Kite poles lying on the floor, leaking bailers, low booms, swamped single bottom cockpits, quirky “unbalanced” rudder shapes, useless vangs  etc are not for me.  I will even struggle to call such a dinghy “modern”. 

There definitely is a balance between a dinghy being too heavy to be “responsive” and a dinghy being too light and showing vices.

 After sailing both  I strongly believe that D-zero and X1 prove that a significantly better “mousetrap” can be designed with e.g. light weight carbon masts offsetting lighter hulls that offer less inertia and maybe also less “stability” or up-to-date sail designs allowing to handle more sail area. On top of that both offer significantly better performance than their “traditional” counterparts – at least at what they are designed for. 

ICON could also fall into this bucket just from looking at it.

Now I just need to save my money and wait until second hand X1’s that allow writing off the full amount at the time of purchase appear on the market…
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Solo4652 View Drop Down
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Posts: 71 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Solo4652 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 15 at 1:40pm
Hi Folks,

It's the OP here, just checking in.

We got the X1 out yesterday but soon packed it away because of lack of wind. We'll be racing it in Leigh and Lowton's open Autumn series up until Christmas. Thereafter, we're not sure what we're doing, hence my search for a boat I can sail. It looks like the person who was going to crew for me won't be available, so I'm not now looking for the "modern 2-sail symmetric". Actually, apart from the X1/0, there doesn't seem to be one, does there.

So, I'm back looking for the modern lightweight sit-in as opposed to sit on singlehander with a stayed rig and 1 sail. I owned an Aero for a short while - too tippy. I currently sail a Solution but all the kneeling has wrecked my knees. I'm considering a Streaker. I'd be interested in an "alternative" build material to make it easier to hit the minimum weight of 48 kgs. Ply-foam-ply is a possibility, but there are other composite boards that might work. How about carbon tube skeleton covered in an epoxy-infused heat-shrink? Just trying to shake things up a bit and use new boat-building techniques. Rooster's "Project X" didn't get off the ground - pity. Here's the Y&Y thread I started: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12205&title=plyfoamply-streaker
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 15 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by boatshed

It would solve the problem all two sail boats have on those long runs & broad reaches; not enough rag up.    Even a modern development Canoe is slow on a run in the lighter stuff.   It doesn't need to be a monster kite, just enough to prevent the boat going at a snails pace.  


I am not sure that any of the two sail boats give the sense of going at a snail's pace off wind when they fleet racing, and their appeal to some is the simplicity for the crew in not having a spinnaker.

As has already been suggested ... the problem with the Icon was the number of iterations of development in what is meant to be a one design, to get a class off the ground you need to instill confidence with your target market and the softly/softly aproach of marketing failed with the MRX and maybe with the X1 ...

And if you put a kite on you may as well buy a Merlin, which if you by a middle aged Winder Tales, would involve little depreciation c/w the gamble of a new SMOD.  And if you are handicap racing you could buy an even older Merlin for £2-3k and have a lot of bangs for your buck.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 15 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by Peaky

To be clear I wasn't referring to the Icon in particular, just that it is clearly unsatisfactory to have the manufacturer recommend a number - there will always be accusations of bias no matter how unfounded. It would be good if the RYA had a method for generating initial numbers or scheme for approving them, but in their absense there is room for an independent organisation to do so - perhaps GRFs Dinghy Racing Association?


to be fair, it hasn't really taken that long for the Aero and Zero to find an official EN.  You just need to get some diversity into the returns by shifting a few units.  I don't think I've seen any bleating from any sailor of either class about the process....  a far cry from what happened with the Icon's initial launch.  All it seemed to be was criticising this or that handicap, tbh, I lost track / interest in following it after a while.


Edited by turnturtle - 02 Nov 15 at 12:53pm
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boatshed View Drop Down
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Posts: 457 		Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 15 at 12:31pm
Since this thread is about a modern symmetric kite, two crew, hiking  boat it would seem the X1 is about the only choice.   But for my liking that is too long, too narrow and over canvassed.  

An Icon with a twin pole symmetric kite would be a good round-the-cans club racer.  It would solve the problem all two sail boats have on those long runs & broad reaches; not enough rag up.    Even a modern development Canoe is slow on a run in the lighter stuff.   It doesn't need to be a monster kite, just enough to prevent the boat going at a snails pace.  

Anyway, the Icon seems to have vanished; which is a shame. 






Steve
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