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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fotoboat...No more
    Posted: 14 Jun 15 at 1:05am
Originally posted by fab100

 
I think most of us suffer from that - perhaps that's the difference between specialist sailing photographers and everyone else. Certainly non-sailor press photographers, in my experience, press the button when the boat is heeled or whatever because it looks more dynamic or 'interesting' to the uninitiated. Pros seem to have a more sympathetic eye - or perhaps it's just that they know what sells.


I spent over a decade fighting with magazine art directors who came from the other side of this particular fence. They'd look at a pic of a boat perfectly trimmed and ditch it in favour of one where the boat was heeled too far or poorly trimmed, and therefore more artistic.  

With modern printing and design you couldn't afford to use a pic that wasn't super sharp (and even pros had problems with that about 15 years ago, when we were busy switching to digital) even if it showed some spectacular sailing, whereas IMHO typical sailors are very happy to look at a boat that's three-quarters out of the water and screaming even if it's not a technically great photo. 

I've never had the chance to check, but I strongly suspect that magazine sales started to dip when better quality paper stock became available.  That lead to the balance tilting away from magazines that were full of interesting stuff to read and soft black and white pics of interesting boats, towards mags that were full of lovely pics that you would flick past in a second and copy so brief that you'd finish reading it before you got to the checkout.

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 15 at 12:50am
Originally posted by Null

 

Its funny becasue most of the personal insults have been chucked towards Graeme, myself or Jimbo.  Not the other way around. 

Maybe the issue is that some feel that insults directed at a group (which happen a lot on forums) are no better than insults directed at an individual - in fact they are arguably worse since (almost) all generalisations are factually wrong.  Therefore if someone flings around an incorrect insult of the "all sailors of type Y are stupid/tightwads/too conservative" type, we feel there's no reason we can't respond to the OP in the same sort of terms.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote fotoboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 15 at 8:37pm
Thanks for starting this thread and for all the kind words about Fotoboat. This gives me an opportunity to share a few thoughts about Fotoboat and to record some well-deserved thanks.  I was already in my late 50s when I first had the idea of launching a third “career”, after 25 years in the Army and 12 as a management consultant.  It was just going to be me at first, but after I invited Alan Henderson to come on board, the team grew very quickly until, at its peak, we had 16 photographers based all over GB and Ireland.  My “Andy Warhol” moment of transient fame came in 2007 when I was the subject of a “Day in the Life” feature in Y&Y.  Of all the naff questions posed by them only one has given me any cause for regret – “By the time I’m 70 I would like to have…” and I answered:  “photographed a Team GBR boat winning an Olympic gold medal.  If I manage to do that at Weymouth, I will have made it with three years to spare.”  Well, I did photograph one of our boats sailing with the crew wearing bronze medal bibs, but sadly they didn’t hold onto that place.  Also, I was photographing as a tourist, from the Stone Pier at Weymouth. But at the same time, Fotoboat “partner” Tom Gruitt, with full media accreditation, was on his way to completing what, IMHO, was the best photo portfolio of the 2012 Olympic sailing event.  I am very happy that Fotoboat has given so many photographers the opportunity to have their work seen and, in Tom’s case, to establish a career as a full-time professional.

When it comes to thanks, I have to start with RIB drivers, without whom I would have been nowhere near the action.  At the start I did weigh up the pros and cons of having my own RIB, but decided against it.  Although I do have a power boat ticket, it was more as insurance in case I ever had to take over in an emergency.  I definitely would not be confident to drive and shoot in anything more than very calm conditions, which kind of defeats the object.  I know that keeping a RIB in one place, pointing the same way when you are just upwind of the weather mark in a good blow with waves takes a lot of skill and I will be eternally grateful to the drivers who have done that for me.  

I am also grateful to the many clubs around the country who have made me welcome.  My own club, Exe SC, will always be a special place for me but if I had to name three others they would be Lyme Regis, Looe and Porthpean, as much for the superb quality of sailing on offer as the warmth of the welcome.

Finally, thanks to all the sailors out there who have bought pictures from Fotoboat!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 15 at 12:03am
Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by transient

On topic now:

I generally don't like the photos I've seen of me sailing. There's always the self critical demon in my head saying "you're not upright", "You're hiking tech is appalling" or "you're trim is bad"

It would have to be an exceptionally good pic for me to buy it, not seen one yet.

I think most of us suffer from that - perhaps that's the difference between specialist sailing photographers and everyone else. Certainly non-sailor press photographers, in my experience, press the button when the boat is heeled or whatever because it looks more dynamic or 'interesting' to the uninitiated. Pros seem to have a more sympathetic eye - or perhaps it's just that they know what sells.

On a different point, i acquired waterproof point-and-shoot camera because I wanted lots of pics of club-racing (mixed fleets, things not being done right etc etc) and could not find any (well except for from the Isle of Man but they would not reply to my licensing enquiries so I could not use them). I now have tons of pics on my website that I give away (sorry Tom, but they are just snaps, far from pro standard). Last week's showed that someone's mast was inverting slightly which gave an avenue to explore in why he thought his speed was down.

With you Clive.  I'm using less video when coaching and just taking lots of stills, often in a sequence at low res.  Much easier to find things like that mast, and also much easier to put a hot debrief together.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 15 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by transient

On topic now:

I generally don't like the photos I've seen of me sailing. There's always the self critical demon in my head saying "you're not upright", "You're hiking tech is appalling" or "you're trim is bad"

It would have to be an exceptionally good pic for me to buy it, not seen one yet.

I think most of us suffer from that - perhaps that's the difference between specialist sailing photographers and everyone else. Certainly non-sailor press photographers, in my experience, press the button when the boat is heeled or whatever because it looks more dynamic or 'interesting' to the uninitiated. Pros seem to have a more sympathetic eye - or perhaps it's just that they know what sells.

On a different point, i acquired waterproof point-and-shoot camera because I wanted lots of pics of club-racing (mixed fleets, things not being done right etc etc) and could not find any (well except for from the Isle of Man but they would not reply to my licensing enquiries so I could not use them). I now have tons of pics on my website that I give away (sorry Tom, but they are just snaps, far from pro standard). Last week's showed that someone's mast was inverting slightly which gave an avenue to explore in why he thought his speed was down.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 15 at 10:03pm
I've go to say I like the photo's Oli (South?) takes. I don't see how it's possible to make a living taking photo's of dinghies, if only because it's only one day a week!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 15 at 9:13pm
When I'm working on an article I'll often use some pictures that I have taken, it helps a lot to do it like that, as I already have an idea of what the text will say - so you take the picture that supports it. Now I'd like to think that I've not got a bad eye for a shot, but nothing more. If it is an important picture, then I'll go to a pro photographer for it. Us keen amateurs may think we can snap away with the best of them, but the reality is something very different. The really good guys, Tom, Paul Wyeth, Chunky Pics, Warwick Baker and Nigel brooke to name but a few are simply better at this - and it shows.

As for the other theme that has surfaced here - that the lack of a contentious topic has resulted in a lack of entries, well, can soon solve that. Wait for a few days more and I'll put up an article that will have you reaching for your keyboards!

D
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 15 at 7:06pm
Well you never actually put it on the lens itself, we used to use plain filters, it could also be smeared 'creatively to get star effects in the highlights of girls eyes for example, something else computers must now do better. Then of course colour and film instead of glass plates got invented. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 15 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by Woodburner

Originally posted by tgruitt



It's a tough trade but the only thing I can do, so I'd better stick at it!



You are good at it Tom and I posted a load of suggestions and lost the lot to the yellow screen, some that I can still remember (my brain is a bit like that flashes of inspiration that then get forgotten almost as quick, hence the need to write stuff down)..

Large block mounts, sell well, but need displaying so the odd freebie with your business name left at clubs you visit to inspire those you photograph to order big wall mounts for their home or office. The ridiculous sums folk pay for prints and tat in places like the Range (a new store that's opened here that plebs visit at the weekend to buy any old crap), would be better placed spent with you.

When you're not on the water, Pets is another area folk pay good money for and just requires patience to capture the moggie or pooch in a good light, horses and their riders at Gymkhanas but you'll probably have similar problems with rights.

Do a deal with beauty salons install some portrait lamps (good up lighter to do away with the wrinkle shadows)and soft focus or vaseline the lens then offer some makeover shots as part of their package.

Then of course kids & weddings... none of which is exciting, but it's the bread and butter end of the trade if you need to live off it to supplement your sports photography.

A couple of mates have recently got their license to operate drones commercially but I fear this area, currently being 'on trend' will become saturated very quickly and not worth the time and money getting approval.

There are lots of other specialist areas, like 360 product views for web display you'll need the software, but all around you there's a requirement, just think about it..

So good luck and I hope you're well and truly on the mend.


Yep I do plenty of horse stuff for other companies, you just don't get to see it on here!

Do people still use vaseline on the lens, I'm pretty sure that was phased out in the 1930s, we can add that in on things called computers these days Wink

I would love to drone but epilepsy means it's very unlikely I will ever have a licence for one, I'm not even allowed a car licence.

I hate children and weddings so that's a no no for me, I would rather take up another profession!!

There are some other ideas but they are secret, people might steal them if I put them on there.
Needs to sail more...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 15 at 4:16pm
Give it a couple more years and it will all come back to the pros. The photographic market is in such a bad state due to 'smart phone photography' that you'll be hard pushed to to find anyone with a camera & lens capable of taking a full frame image of a dinghy when racing. 
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