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The Evolution of Expense
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jeffers View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Mar 15 at 11:41am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by JimC

[RANT]
Oh good grief, that's just got to be challenged. Takers not givers indeed. What nonsense.

Doing circuit events is in itself a different kind of giving to the sport, especially if you're one of the 90% who isn't taking home the glassware. My club for one values the people who come to our open events, take the trouble to travel, bring an extra dimension to those of our class members who aren't able to travel. If you don't think that committment is giving something to the sport you need to look at yourself very hard. It sure as hell is giving something to our club that people are prepared to take the time and trouble to travel to our opens, to pay us an entry fee over their own club or RYA subscriptions and everything else. We're glad to see them and the more of these "takers" the better.

At different stages in your life its appropriate to do different things. Last time I was campaigning on the circuit semi seriously I was a member of a club, but I didn't contribute anything to it but my club fees. We did the occasional tuning weekend, but that was it, no duties, nothing like that.

Now though I have more time than I did then, and I get to the majority of my current clubs opens and I try and provide a reasonably efficient results service and some hopefully not too dreadful photos on the screen at lunchtime and on the website, which I hope makes the day better for the competitors. I'm not a giver now and a taker then, I'm the same damn person, just a different stage in life and different opportunities.

[/RANT]


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Seconded.

Remember anyone who sails as RYA is a personal member of the RYA so they are contributing just directly to our governing body rather than through a club.

I can see precisely how financially it makes sense to not join a club if you are never there especially given the cost of membership of some clubs.
Paul
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 15 at 11:06am
Originally posted by JimC

[RANT]
Oh good grief, that's just got to be challenged. Takers not givers indeed. What nonsense.

Doing circuit events is in itself a different kind of giving to the sport, especially if you're one of the 90% who isn't taking home the glassware. My club for one values the people who come to our open events, take the trouble to travel, bring an extra dimension to those of our class members who aren't able to travel. If you don't think that committment is giving something to the sport you need to look at yourself very hard. It sure as hell is giving something to our club that people are prepared to take the time and trouble to travel to our opens, to pay us an entry fee over their own club or RYA subscriptions and everything else. We're glad to see them and the more of these "takers" the better.

At different stages in your life its appropriate to do different things. Last time I was campaigning on the circuit semi seriously I was a member of a club, but I didn't contribute anything to it but my club fees. We did the occasional tuning weekend, but that was it, no duties, nothing like that.

Now though I have more time than I did then, and I get to the majority of my current clubs opens and I try and provide a reasonably efficient results service and some hopefully not too dreadful photos on the screen at lunchtime and on the website, which I hope makes the day better for the competitors. I'm not a giver now and a taker then, I'm the same damn person, just a different stage in life and different opportunities.

[/RANT]


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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 3:18pm
All good points but running the tally board on a sunny Sunday is a far cry from mark laying in the pi$$ing rain in January or February.  If you don't provide a nice, free-of-charge cup 'o soup to those volunteers, then you really are taking the mick IMO!!
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 15 at 11:16pm
If you look after volunteers you will find that there are people who will run racing, lay marks, run safety boats, who are not now active racers.

For instance, it was noticeable at RYA Race Officials Conference a few years back when Marklayers were invited for the first time just how many of them were not from a sailing background, but were ex forces, power boaters, sea anglers....

The same applies for many tasks when running a big event. At my local club some of the sailing members were fond of a game of bridge. This has developed in to a flourishing bridge club, with many people now club house members who have no link with sailing. It is surprising how many get involved when we run a regatta. No sailing experience is required to make sandwiches, run the BBQ or even run the tally board on the slipway along with many other duties.
Gordon
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 15 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

Gordon, a spot on analysis! When I was working as an RO out in OZ, there was a very strict 'no alcohol afloat' rule applied to all of the race team boats. You got soft drinks and a nice packed lunch, seeing that the team are the 'first afloat, last ashore' it was nice to be well taken care off. Compare that with an (un-named) club in the UK who baulked at providing anything for the race team on the grounds of 'cost'! Is it any wonder that it can be hard to properly resource all the various jobs in the team!
D

this reflects my  experience of operational and clinical management roles with a large CQC registered charity , despite the costs  in training  volunteers, providing their expenses and subsistence plus providing hundreds of thousands of pounds of  equipment  ( in some cases providing hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of kit to a single site )  paying  a reasonable daily  rate   at cost was far too much for some  never mind  trying to charge a surplus generating  price for commercial events to enable  genuine community  events with a need for charitable service provision  to be offered free or at cost  cover  depending on  corporate structure ( there are issues with  charities  transferring money or  services at less than cost price  depending on the exact  purposes and articles of the charities in volved)
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 15 at 7:45pm
We run our opens alongside club racing, so the team have more to deal with. A free lunch and a thank you at the end doesn't seem too much to give them.

Big opens at sea will have far more people volunteering to help, often with long days, on top of their normal duty day.
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zippyRN View Drop Down
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 15 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by gordon

What exactly do clubs offer to volunteer...

People who volunteer often get involved with volunteering in several different spheres of activity. After time they will concentrate on those activities that :
- provide a good social experience
- demonstrate that their input is valued
- provides decent facilities/tools/equipment for the volunteers
- are well organised so that volunteers can get on with the jobs that they are their to do.

Above all - VOLUNTEERS ARE NOT FREE LABOUR! Maintaining a team of enthusiastic and competent volunteers is not cheap and requires work.

I do a lot of umpiring for team racing - do I prefer to go to an event where:
- club members provide accommodation in their own hous;
- tea and coffee are available at the umpires briefing;
- the RIBs are dry, well maintained and the motors have been warmed up that morning
- hot drinks and packed lunch are provided on the water
- the club offers the first drink as we get off the water
- a simple but hearty dinner is provided

or the event where we know that none of these will be provided.

The same can apply for mark layers, sandwich makers, race secretaries, and all the other volunteers who make an event or a club a success.

If a club has difficulty finding volunteers don't blame the volunteers. They are probably down the road helping organising a rowing regatta, a junior rugby blitz, a fund raiser for a local charity... To borrow a quite - Do not ask what volunteers can do for your club, ask what your club can do for the volunteers.

Simple things count:
- the social on the Sunday evening after the competitors have left, or the annual volunteers party
- if you are selling event branded gear do you offer volunteers a distinctive version (different colour for instance) as a gift or at cost price
- a reduction in club fees for regular volunteers
- holding a pre-event briefing for all volunteers, and an after event de-brief
...

 the fundamental difference  in volunteering for a sailing club, especially  when talking about   OOD   and  safety boat duties is that it;s participants  doing it as an integral part of the participation  - where as a lot of other volunteering is  seperate or because people can't afford to participate ( there aren;t many  motorsports marshals  who also compete ) or are now too old / un fit  / have health problems which limit particpation but can still  ref or run the lines ...

the costs/ fees thing is an interesting one and a discussion i remember  hearing  some 20 years ago as a route to  enable  improvements to  the fabric of the club house  / compounds / safety / committee/ utility boats  - introduce a 'development fund' levy and associated  restricted fund , the contribution to which could be avoided by  taking part in working parties and/or offering to do extra OOD or Safety boat duties ... 
 
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 15 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by Rupert

If running an Open, then it should be taken into account in the fee charged.


I think there is a problem with some clubs seeing opens as cash cows.
Whack up the entry fee, charge more for beer and food, cut back on mark laying and committee boats..

When I volunteer to do rescue boat at an open, why should I expect much different treatment than doing a normal club duty? I'm not even missing club racing.

There are a few clubs I'm in no rush to go back to, because the open meeting seemed to be run more for the benefit of the host club than for the competitors. Then you wonder why turnouts are low...
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 15 at 6:08pm
If running an Open, then it should be taken into account in the fee charged.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 15 at 5:22pm
Bear in mind that some of the misplaced pressure on cost is often due to the way that clubs are forced to keep subs down to keep elements of the membership happy, leaving very little wriggle room for freebies.  
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