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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Feb 15 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by RS400atC


You don't race a roto kayak on flat water.

Which is probably part of why flatwater racing is a tiny sport that has a not dissimilar demographic timebomb to dinghy sailing.  There's a similar amount of grey hair, but the bellies tend to be smaller... ;)

Actually there are roto surfskis in use for flatwater races in Australia, and certainly some hype over a new version that looks like it might get a toehold internationally.

As for casual users, there's a broader church than just hirers and holiday homers.  The sit-on-top thing, perhaps more than the rotomoulding has pretty much made it paddlesports 'dinghy boom' moment.  It's just that the clubs and governing bodies are keeping their heads very firmly in the sand!  

We certainly get a lot of SOT paddlers interested in joning at club open days, but I think most of them pick up the 'you have the wrong sort of boat' vibe and they don't become members.
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Sounds pretty similar to sailing, then.
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 15 at 10:40am
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by DiscoBall

Originally posted by Chris 249

 
As to whether roto boats will change sailing for ever.... well, maybe the jury is still out about whether people are just being snobby 

I'm not sure the jury's out, after all kayakers can be plenty snobby about rotomoulded sit-on-top kayaks. However they outnumber conventional kayaks 10 to 1 on many waterways during summer - an expression of a pent up desire to get in the water in simple, accessible craft.

Rotomoulded dinghies don't seem to be around in any such numbers, which perhaps suggests there's not the same demand for sailing in the first place.

Interesting point about the snobbery in kayaks. It could be that the new and casual users have become so much more common than the snobs that the snobs are basically ignored? 

IMHO the underlying issue could be that sailing's too preoccupied with other things to think about satisfying a pent up desire to get in the water in simple, accessible sailing craft. I don't know the figures, but one manager from Hobie US has said on the US Hobie forum that one of the Hobie kayaks is the world's top-selling sailboat. I went in to one of our local diving/snowsports shops to get some wettie boots after doing an F18 cat regatta and there was some mutual puzzlement when I mentioned to the manager that I had been racing a Hobie - as he told me later, to the yoof these days a "Hobie" is a plastic kayak, sometimes with a sail on it.

Some of the guys credited with sparking the plastic sit on top market specifically stated that they made it big time because windsurfing got too high tech, leaving the kayaks with surplus rotomoulding equipment, salesmen, manufacturing staff and manufacturing plant. Whether that (and the success of Toppers etc) indicates that there is room for a re-thinking about sailing's attitude towards plastic sailboats is one thing, but IMHO it's arguably fair to say that most of the sport hasn't turned an open mind to the question- a lot of the press and officials seem to be stuck in the ageing mindset that high performance is the only way forward.

The casual users of kayaks seem to be eithr hirers, or those who buy them as a must-ave accessory for the holiday cottage.
There is a deep divide between beach users, who play a few times a year, 'adventure centre' clients and 'enthusiasts' who go out every weekend in the winter.
Then those competing in the various disciplines are separate again.
You don't race a roto kayak on flat water.
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by NickA

They're all sitting in our boat park being steadily consumed by brambles  - though unlike the abandoned GP14s and ents they are, at least, not rotting.


At least wood boats will go back to the earth where they belong.

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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 8:06pm
At my club their are numerous Toppers, Topaz, Taz a Magno, Bahia, a very large Sea Cadets rowing boat plus three safety boats, none exposed to uv light, except in use, so will probably see this century out.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by NickA

They're all sitting in our boat park being steadily consumed by brambles  - though unlike the abandoned GP14s and ents they are, at least, not rotting.


At least wood boats will go back to the earth.
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Posts: 784 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 15 at 6:49pm
They're all sitting in our boat park being steadily consumed by brambles  - though unlike the abandoned GP14s and ents they are, at least, not rotting.
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 15 at 10:55am
From what I can make out Topper et al sell shed loads of rotomould sailboats, its just that apart from the small ones we don't see them at the clubs. It would be interesting to know where they are sailed, I suppose I ought to go out to Chichester harbour or somewhere some hot Sunday summer afternooon and do a head count of what's out there.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 15 at 10:32am
Originally posted by Chris 249

 but IMHO it's arguably fair to say that most of the sport hasn't turned an open mind to the question- a lot of the press and officials seem to be stuck in the ageing mindset that high performance is the only way forward.

but isn't that because they have a media driven agenda, not one too concerned with grass roots participation?  
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 15 at 10:28am
Originally posted by DiscoBall

Originally posted by Chris 249

 
As to whether roto boats will change sailing for ever.... well, maybe the jury is still out about whether people are just being snobby 

I'm not sure the jury's out, after all kayakers can be plenty snobby about rotomoulded sit-on-top kayaks. However they outnumber conventional kayaks 10 to 1 on many waterways during summer - an expression of a pent up desire to get in the water in simple, accessible craft.

Rotomoulded dinghies don't seem to be around in any such numbers, which perhaps suggests there's not the same demand for sailing in the first place.

Interesting point about the snobbery in kayaks. It could be that the new and casual users have become so much more common than the snobs that the snobs are basically ignored? 

IMHO the underlying issue could be that sailing's too preoccupied with other things to think about satisfying a pent up desire to get in the water in simple, accessible sailing craft. I don't know the figures, but one manager from Hobie US has said on the US Hobie forum that one of the Hobie kayaks is the world's top-selling sailboat. I went in to one of our local diving/snowsports shops to get some wettie boots after doing an F18 cat regatta and there was some mutual puzzlement when I mentioned to the manager that I had been racing a Hobie - as he told me later, to the yoof these days a "Hobie" is a plastic kayak, sometimes with a sail on it.

Some of the guys credited with sparking the plastic sit on top market specifically stated that they made it big time because windsurfing got too high tech, leaving the kayaks with surplus rotomoulding equipment, salesmen, manufacturing staff and manufacturing plant. Whether that (and the success of Toppers etc) indicates that there is room for a re-thinking about sailing's attitude towards plastic sailboats is one thing, but IMHO it's arguably fair to say that most of the sport hasn't turned an open mind to the question- a lot of the press and officials seem to be stuck in the ageing mindset that high performance is the only way forward.


Edited by Chris 249 - 10 Feb 15 at 10:30am
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