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Yuletide yardstick - is a change on the way

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alstorer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Yuletide yardstick - is a change on the way
    Posted: 14 Jan 15 at 7:17am
Originally posted by JimC

I think it would be very easy to read too much into classes' attendance at the big winter events. My experience is that a few keen crews will jolly along a bunch of their mates who aren't that bothered abut doing these events to come along, and a class will have big numbers for a few years. 

Yup. For a few years there was an effort to get 5-10 B14s along to all the big winter events. Then everyone got fed up shivering! Plus this is a World's winter, so many of the most keen travelling boats are currently in a container on the way back from Melbourne.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 15 at 11:48pm
They're damned if they do, damned if the don't.   Folks arguing the toss over handicaps are welcome to take up Golf...

Take it for what it is for most of us - a competitive cruise - and it's absolutely fine. Enjoy the boat on boat action, whomever it might happen to be with this week and you could legitimately start to see why handicap racing might actually appeal more than class racing!   Variety is the spice of life n all that - especially if you're not mixing up your location or the established pecking order of your knee wrecker fleet rarely alters.

Just don't take it too seriously, and anything more than a cursory glance at the spreadsheet is time you'll never get back and fretting about it... Never fret, it's not real racing, but so what?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wetabix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 15 at 11:16pm
While most thinking people would agree that fleet racing is the 'best' racing the fact remains that the majority of cruiser racing in the world is done on handicap. The Sydney Hobart, the Round the Island, the Route de Rhum and dozens of races around the coast every weekend. Many people, for whatever reason, refuse to be herded into one designs.  In the dinghy world, I don't think many regattas would survive without a substantial handicap class. Sure you will sometimes find that the 200s or 400s get their own start, but year in year out all the regattas near where i am (Moray Firth) have to be handicap events.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Father Jack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 15 at 10:54pm
Hasn't this document actually been in existence for several years? I found an archived version of the Racing Charter page dating back to 2011 and it is linked to on there. If so it doesn't seem that the RYA is being especially aggressive about persuading clubs to implement the 'policy'!

I agree with Rupert about paragraph 3 though, any attempt to implement that at most clubs might lead to the committee being lynched.      
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 15 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Mark Antony



http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Racing/RacingInformation/RacingCharter/Class%20Racing%20Initiative.pdf


Can't say that I disagree with the sentiments of the paper, though I have more faith in natural selection than RYA edicts.

If the RYA really believed in keeping Open Meeting sailors engaged with clubs they would ban sailors from competing using the RYA as their club.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 15 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Rupert

T....

However, for me it starts to go pear shaped at recommendation 3, with some of the quotes you have given above. I hope it would get short shrift at most clubs with handicap racing and a large number of cruising members, who would suddenly be 2nd class citizens.


It's pretty much how things are at several clubs I can think of.
More so 30 years ago.
It seemed to work back then.
The clubs with strong class fleets were, and are, regarded as proper racing clubs.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 15 at 8:36pm
While I have enjoyed dougaldogs articles (it was me that brought it to the forum after all), and I agree in several cases that the RYA have lost their way in terms of the local governance of our sport, I am not entirely sure if I agree with the statements about the RYA advice.
If I was sitting down to brainstorm potential reasons for lower club attendances and ways forward to encourage local club sailing, I'd very likely come up with similar advice. The vast choice of dinghies on offer does tend to lead people into trying to find the boat that fits them like a glove, and often prevents them from getting the most out of the sport. If I look back in my clubs history it's clear that when we have had fleets we have had bigger turnouts and possibly a more sociable club. In the last 15yrs we have predominantly moved to purely handicap racing but we have a couple of fleets which are starting to build which is having a good effect. In part this is happening because we have implemented some activities to favour these boats without going all out and saying only this type of boat is allowed. I think if you read the RYA advice on this as simply someone's brain dump of ideas that might help build classes then it's fine, and it is difficult to argue that handicap racing is better than fleet racing.

I am disappointed that more isn't done with regards py, as I think it could be improved, especially NHC which in my opinion is a disastrous system for small cruiser racing clubs, and I see to some degree that the PY system for dinghies would go the same way if those in the ivory towers got their way. In part I hate dual scoring, it's simply an excuse for not getting the system right in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 15 at 8:35pm
Thank you Mark A.

So, Dougaldog, for some parts you are cherrypicking your quotes. It does say that modern boats can be faster, but also says that older classes retain their appeal and support.

It also says that a club should base their boat choices around what the membership want, so that could be old, new or anything, really.

However, for me it starts to go pear shaped at recommendation 3, with some of the quotes you have given above. I hope it would get short shrift at most clubs with handicap racing and a large number of cruising members, who would suddenly be 2nd class citizens.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Antony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 15 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Dougaldog, do you have a link to any online documents with those quotes in, please? The RYA website is so full, it can take years to track stuff down. Or is it on paper?

It might be advice to clubs, but I'm not sure if anyone at my club has ever read it, or if they did, no one cared, which seems to me to be the right attitude to pronouncements from on high.


http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Racing/RacingInformation/RacingCharter/Class%20Racing%20Initiative.pdf

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 15 at 7:45pm
Rupert, all in good time!
But as for my reporting anything other than what I see and hear, no, that is not style - I hope those of you who read (and maybe enjoy) my articles can recognise that. Recent goings on have more than a whiff of the conspiracy theory so beloved by iGRF about them and he's right to hold them - I would. You'd think a lot less of me if I had the story and didn't write it, so despite the comment, be assured that the pencils are sharpened ready!

D

Edited by Dougaldog - 13 Jan 15 at 8:03pm
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