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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 10:12am
Originally posted by MerlinMags

John Oakley was also known for his showmanship, and occasionally making people believe he was doing something to get a speed edge (when it was all baloney).

Here's the Lumix skiff article in case anyone wants to see the picture of the plate on the top of the jib (scroll down for a close up).
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/167884/Lumix-wing-mast

Mr Oakley's winglets were indeed tiny. I remember thinking at the time that they probably lay almost completely in the wake of the mast. Not that that necessarily makes them completely worthless - splitter plates can do much to damp down a turbulent wake (that's probably what the headboard is already doing), but any effect of those winglets would be negligible, I'd have thought.

As to the jib end plate, that's probably the last place I'd bother. The mainsail will likely already be extracting some energy from the jib's tip vortex, much as geese use each other when flying in echelon.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 9:07am
So, returning from my nightmare moving house experience for a moments reality, what we appear to be saying is, whilst not a necessary improvement that could be derived by just extending the mast, it doesn't disadvantage and in the cases of restricted mast height could bring advantage, as well as providing some safety benefit as a mast head float. So not a totally silly idea, maybe worth pursuing down the path a way, and when not using it as a mast head foil you could always attach lines to it and use it as a trainer kite.

Edited by iGRF - 03 Nov 14 at 9:08am
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MerlinMags View Drop Down
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Posts: 588 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MerlinMags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 7:51am
John Oakley was also known for his showmanship, and occasionally making people believe he was doing something to get a speed edge (when it was all baloney).

Here's the Lumix skiff article in case anyone wants to see the picture of the plate on the top of the jib (scroll down for a close up).
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/167884/Lumix-wing-mast
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Posts: 49 		Post Options Post Options   Quote OultonBen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 14 at 7:27pm
Winglets has been done already .... in 1970's ... ish !
John Oakley had them on his mainsails when he started his loft in Fareham (I can't remember the loft name & it was taken over after a relatively short period).
He was full of innovation and designed a lightweight cloth front third, and heavier weight up the leech (sails looked peculiar/interesting with the scalloped join between light & heavy cloths).
His Winglets were made of plastic 90º angle, as part of the headboard, not very big at all;  lots of benefit claims, but little hard evidence.


Edited by OultonBen - 02 Nov 14 at 7:28pm
No-one can squeeze past ..... when you're as "Chunky" as myself !
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 11:53am
Yes! That's it, it even has end plates!
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 9:30am
Click on "Mosaics" in the second one to see the figures. Fig 1 shows your idea, plus winglets/an endplate and amid-span fence.

It is amazing what people will patent, and often without building/trying out the idea first, which would sometimes be cheaper than and obviate the patenting process...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 7:01am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by Peaky

How about sticking a small sail on top of the mainsail set on the opposite tack? Would reduce the heeling moment to zero, but as it is smaller it wouldn't reduce the thrust to zero, so you can have as big a sail as you like and no (sideways) capsizing. Not very efficient from a drag (pointing) perspective, but lots of power potentially available.


Like this: http://www.google.com/patents/US4843987

or this: http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=20130117&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=US&NR=2013014683A1&KC=A1&ND=5 - hope that link works. click around to see the drawings (pdf, so I can't upload)

Yes, like the first one. So the top of the rig is on starboard and the bottom on port. Amazing the things people patent, isn't it?
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 11:36pm
Will the winglet need a winglet?
Great book for Club Sailors here
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hobbiteater View Drop Down
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Posts: 107 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hobbiteater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 9:22am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Airbus winglet. Not quite symmetrical, but shows that pressure side fences are not without benefits:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Winglet_Airbus_A319-132.jpg

unfortunately not even close to being aerodynamically symmetrical even if it looks similar geometrically.
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Posts: 43 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 14 at 8:48pm
These model yacht guys have been doing it for some time.

http://www.users.on.net/~malcolmandjane/750/750picsJ.html

Edited by MerlinMags - 03 Nov 14 at 7:48am
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