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A few thoughts on bandits

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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Aug 14 at 6:30pm
Re the Miracle......
It just so happens that I had to go to Hunstanton as I had been booked as guest speaker for one of their evening events. I hate doing these things at a rush, as I much prefer to set up early and relax, so I had ample opportunity to watch two of their races and then take an extended stroll around the dinghy park. I was well impressed, there were some very nicely finished and fitted out boats there and the popular sail makers within the class have clearly put a lot of thought into the rigs. I had a strong sense of being at a 'two person Solo' event which is little surprise given that both are Jack Holt boats. Okay, you don't scream along under an acre of sail, but the racing was close throughout the fleet and with little in the way of boatspeed advantage, 'good' racing skills are at a premium. If your boat from you recent H&S race came third in that fleet, then I would say that you are seeing evidence of a good boat, well sailed, rather than banditry.

This does highlight one of the other variables that some of the nay sayers about the PY system seem all to quick to overlook. Many of these so called 'bandit' fleets are good enough to retain their crews, year after year. I covered Merlin Week at Salcombe and saw crews there who were in the 20th or more visit to the venue. Good boats do not only retain their followers, but this long term commitment certainly raises the performance level. It might be different for the sailmaker jockey who hops from class to class, but that is unlikely to impact on PYs.

I can but say again that the Miracles were enjoying a good week and appeared to be having no shortage of fun. The venue was not one of their more popular locations, so numbers had slipped to the mid 30s, their normal Nationals turnout is around the 40 boat mark. In comparison to some of the other more 'highly valued' classes, I would say that the Miracle fleet, far from being bandits, are actually a very good benchmark of the UK dinghy sailing scene.

Dougal
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 14 at 2:49pm
Well you're just as welcome as they were to come down and try my helming out.. A shame I was OOD that night, they'd never have gotten as clean a start if I'd been on that line, I'd have made certain they ate dirty Alto air all the way up that first beat..

We could also suggest it was thanks to their 'training' on our super masculine water that gave them just the edge they needed for Hunstanton...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 14 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by iGRF


Like those who use the V3000 knowing full well it's advantages..

Hardly true at WSC on our personal PY - see how you'd like that and the tales it might tell about your helming...
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 14 at 1:21pm
Ah, but be very careful you don't make the counter argument about very good sailors deliberately choosing their craft...

Like those who use the V3000 knowing full well it's advantages..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 14 at 1:03pm
Yes I saw their position and though the same thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 14 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Well as luck would have it, we had a bandit raid last night all tooled up with their carbon bandoleers, sombreros and no shortage of ammunition and to cap it all I was OOD. The Miracle Pond Jockeys have a nationals coming up and needed to prepare for some 3D water movement and we had a fresh south westerly nicely prepared for them, with our lot sucking their teeth and drinking tea, it was touch and go that we'd even give them some competition, but with a little subtle egging on from me, getting them to stop worrying about their mangina's and woman the f**k up and get out there, a course was duly laid and off they went.

Then a Miracle happened and 'they' went round the first mark second, our lot were sailing like men with no arms, the Merlin choose exactly the wrong end of the line, our Contender had decided to use his old boat (because it was a bit windy) the Hornet had decided to try and sting the Merlin so was following them about the only Laser had its radial up and our normal hero was nowhere to be seen, the RS500's choose not to fly their kites and one retired hurt, the Vago, Vision and Vario's didnt really feature and nobody fancied the Icon in the conditions, so in the end the Miracle smashed it.

The Contender stormed round as expected and finished 8 minutes 21 secs clear, normally well enough to take the beer money, but sailing off 1200, the Miracle still had it by well over 3 minutes, in the Bandit hall of fame, the Miracle must reign supreme, we thanked them, congratulated them on their superior sailing skills and they left. I then went down to the changing room to remonstrate with the ladies...

I didn't notice any changing of rig tensions going on by the way, they did have a good start, and they could fly their kite on the top reach which was a bit tight and had the Merlin over in the closing stages, but by then the race was well lost & Pancho Villa rode all over us..

It would seem that GRF's 'bandit' finished 3rd out of 35 at the Miracle nationals.


Could the unthinkable be true: that they less bandits, more just better sailors than Grumph and the rest of the crowd we saw in that video?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 14 at 12:34pm
Gordon

Exactly right - we all have to view handicap arcing as what is it - usually not to be taken too seriously because some days you (and your boat)will be favoured and some days not.

Any competent helm will know how well they have sailed and not get too worked up about overall results.

Most of these 'bandits' are simply well sorted boats that are sailed well.

Admittedly many boats have favoured conditions but lots of the handicap moaners simply don't sail their own boats well enough.

There is so much nonsense talked about handicaps on this forum - i.e suggesting that a Laser is a good handicap boat - typically it gets beaten by certain boats in light winds and trapeze boats etc in windier ones. Its generally ok in a mix of conditions but because its not particularly suited to any particular conditions it will rarely win a handicap event overall.

If you sail handicap races just accept that sometimes it will be your day (if you are good enough) and sometimes it wont.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 14 at 11:16am
Hi Drifter
unfortunately not all of us fall within a single boats sensible sailing weights or physical size. So in reality we are still going to have different classes to sail to keep us all happy. Frankly I am fed up with all the knocking of our handicap system as I feel with the improved feedback we are now getting things will settle down to a sensible level.
I sail a Phantom on the sea if I sail well enough I can win.
Local inter club event 60 plus boats only beaten by Ian Morgan sailing a laser who is way better than me and Nick and Caroline Martin in a 400 who having sailed with Nick a few years ago is also way better than me.
Wind was not what you would call ideal Phantom conditions.

Stop moaning about your handicap, pick a boat to suit you physically and your venue, learn to sail your boat to its best and go out and enjoy it.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 14 at 9:12am
I don't think Roosters Project X got past the Styrofoam stage, however can see a a smidgen of likeness in the RS Aero and the D-0
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 14 at 8:10pm
The man behind it became ill and so it lost momentum. Coupled with the iffy feedback and 70s styling I guess Rooster weren't confident enough to push on alone with it.
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