Edition
Boats for sale
| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
modified one designs |
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Medway Maniac 
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Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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 Topic: modified one designsPosted: 11 Jun 14 at 1:19pm |
...pretty much the usual for end-of-life care, but they'll save on pension costs. |
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2547
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Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 11 Jun 14 at 1:12pm |
Well I guess they could continue to eat themselves to death but that will cost the tax payers ...
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Medway Maniac
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Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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Posted: 11 Jun 14 at 11:53am |
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It's all-up weight (i.e. displacement) we’ re concerned with, Mike.
Edited by Medway Maniac - 11 Jun 14 at 12:53pm |
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blaze720
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Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Posted: 11 Jun 14 at 11:42am |
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For the record ...
Halo is simply a regular Blaze with a larger sail (11.5 in place of 10.4m) and it is not heavier ..unless you count the extra weight of the full length battens ! The current version sits on the standard spars as well - either alloy or carbon. Seperately the comments about boat developed in Oz sound about right to me - they generally seem to have lower rocker and are mostly lighter. The Blaze is also a very low rocker design and was not from Oz but Icons roots are nearly pure NS and it is therefore by UK design standards very low rocker as well. Icon has excellent low wind performance as well but I suspect that is down to the suble detail underwater and not just the length / width. The Blaze can be exceptional in breeze and at speed but is more 'average' in the light stuff as is well known. Low weight is usually an advantage if all else is equal ... but we can only rarely assume that of course. As for potential Halo helms ... if you are on the heavy side maybe don't go on that promised diet until you have tried one ! Mike L. |
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gordon1277
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Joined: 24 Mar 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 665 |
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Posted: 11 Jun 14 at 11:33am |
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Agree good point Chris and Jim but with 2547 point should the Phantom fleet seek sponsorship from a diabetes drug company or Pukka Pies?
No contest Pukka Pies |
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Gordon
Lossc |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 11 Jun 14 at 11:32am |
Normally better, in my opinion, to develop an all new boat that reflects all current technology and thinking. |
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2547
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Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 11 Jun 14 at 11:14am |
No ... it is the helm that need the lightweight treatment ... Edited by 2547 - 11 Jun 14 at 11:15am |
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Medway Maniac
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Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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Posted: 11 Jun 14 at 11:09am |
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Good points, Chris and Jim.
So, it’s the Halo not the Fire that needs the lightweight treatment! |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 11 Jun 14 at 11:04am |
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OTOH, if we average 20lbs heavier than our grandfathers, if we take 20lbs weight out of our boats to compensate for the 20lbs added to our midsections, the boats will probably be sailing on pretty much the same marks...
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 11 Jun 14 at 10:20am |
The boats that were lightened and improved down here were different from most of the boats in other countries, which can't be given the same treatment. The boats that received the lightweight treatment were designs like the Sharpie which were, even in their original heavy form, flat in rocker and section. Such boats are popular in Oz, where winds in the sailing season tend to be stronger than in most other places and there is very little inland/lake sailing. We also tended to add more crew weight to give them more leverage to handle our stronger winds. The Kiwis were similar in many ways but their boats tended to have more beam and less length; I suspect that this is at least partly because they had some nice protected waterways and therefore were more into day cruising (as was the case in the USA) and perhaps because they had less money per boat, smaller cars, etc. This historical chance meant that Oz was in a unique situation when plywood arrived and allowed us to make lighter boats. If you have a skinny, flat boat with more crew weight than other places would give it, when you reduce hull weight you are left with a boat that is still sailing to its original lines, or something pretty close to it. Therefore the whole thing ends up working pretty damn well most of the time. Records from the time the lightweights arrived also show that the real attraction was not the extra speed (although that was appreciated) but the economy and ease of construction, maintenance and launching/carrying across the many sandy beaches. The speed aspect only gained precedence in hindsight. Boats in other countries tend to have more curve in rocker and section because they are designed for lighter average winds and for other cultural/technological reasons. If you take a whole lot of weight out of them, they end up with too much rocker and not enough waterline or waterline beam. They just don't work as well when you take weight out, and being lighter may also be of less use if you have light winds and different launching setups. So while I'm a lightweight boat fan by preference and birth, there may be significant problems in taking what worked down here and applying it to other areas. It's not a case of one style being good and the other bad, just different solutions for different situations IMHO. Edited by Chris 249 - 11 Jun 14 at 10:22am |
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