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Brass View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Right to use name and likeness
    Posted: 27 Feb 14 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Surely what the OA needs to be doing is asking competitors for their permission to use images of them at an event, not telling them that they MUST give permission in order to enter.  The rest of it seems pretty unenforceable at any level where National Authorities aren't involved - is a club going to trawl the web to find you tube footage or a blog with a photo on?
Yes, the OA needs to be making sure that competitors don't complain about having their photos taken and published.  The first paragraph of the NOR quoted by the OP does that just fine and is unobjectionable.
Originally posted by Strangler

The media rights belong exclusively to xx Yacht Club and xx Class Association. By participating in this event a competitor automatically grants to the organising authority and any sponsors the right in perpetuity to make, use and show, from time to time at their discretion, any motion pictures and live, taped or filmed television and or any other reproductions of him or her during the period of the competition without compensation. 

It's the second paragraph which purports to take exclusive rights that is on the nose.
Originally posted by Strangler

The participants also undertake not to allow any act of reproduction, public communication or any distribution of images of the races without the previous authorisation from xx Yacht Club. 
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 14 at 1:11pm
Just ask for permission when filling in the entry form. And group photos don't need permission from everyone (like the unknown bloke caught in the background) so long as you aren't naming them.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 14 at 1:06pm
Oh I dunno Rupert. It would be completely impractical to ask permission. What would you do - scan every photo to make sure that there isn't someone who didn't give permission in the background somewhere?
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 14 at 12:46pm
Surely what the OA needs to be doing is asking competitors for their permission to use images of them at an event, not telling them that they MUST give permission in order to enter.  The rest of it seems pretty unenforceable at any level where National Authorities aren't involved - is a club going to trawl the web to find you tube footage or a blog with a photo on?
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 14 at 12:16am
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Peaky

So if a competitor did post some gopro footage on this forum, could they be disqualified?

I am not a lawyer, but I don't think so. 

The sailing club could maybe sue you for breach of contract, pay out £200,000 in costs and get 5p damages.

And probably get blacklisted two thirds of the classes in the world for hosting any future events. But of course you'd be down all the costs plus 3 years of legal hell as well.


I'm not a lawyer either, but I suspect that a competitor posting stuff that he'd undertaken not to would have broken his contract with the organising body.

I'm not a lawyer either, but here goes.

Let me say once again, that IMHO, this provision is NOT a carefully considered strategy, but rather a thoughtless copying of a clause someone has seen somewhere, or somebody trying to demonstrate how 'smart' and 'media savvy' they are.

The above assumes that there is an enforceable contract.  We often talk about the NOR and the Entry Form forming a 'contract', usually in the context of a boat agreeing to be governed by the rules (rule 3) and the OA's obligations to give prizes and otherwise do what was represented in the NOR.  There's certainly an implied agreement, but whether it's enforceable under contract law, I wonder:  where's the consideration?  Note that the legal cases, (Satanita and Juno vs Endeavour), talk about a contract between competitors, not a contract between a competitor and the OA.

If it is a contract, then this provision might (just) squeak in as offensive under the consumer protection provision of the UK Unfair Contracts Act 1977 s3 for unreasonableness.

In Australia it would be travelling close to an unconscionable provision (asymmetry of bargaining power, take it or leave it terms, no consideration relateable or proportional to the transfer of exclusive rights.

Acceptance of the rules still includes the NoR?

Yup:  the rules include the NOR (Definitions:  rules).

Is there any penalty other than DSQ?

Nope, provided, of course that the OA or the RC delivered a valid protest in time.

Unless the SI provide for discretionary penalties, or unless perhaps the OA/RC made a rule 69 issue of it, instead of protesting under rule 3, in which case the Protest Committee could give a Warning <g>. 

Originally posted by RS400atC

I think this really ought only to be an issue if the event is being subsidised by selling media rights.

How the OA tries to make money is, to a degree, irrelevant to their attempt to appropriate, without any compensation, the exclusive rights to a Competitor's name and likeness.

It's silly to suggest that a Competitor's blog would seriously compete with any professional effort by the OA to publish coverage.

Or where the organisers have made arrangements to promote the event in a certain way and people randomly publishing stuff undermines that.

Cart before the horse a little here.

The OA should never have devised a promotion scheme that requires the unfair and unreasonable appropriation of exclusive rights to a competitor's name and likeness, without compensation.

In which case it might be justifiable to expect competitors to toe this particular line.

It might not be a 'belated' DSQ, you could be slung out before the last race.

Depending on when the valid protest was delivered and decided.

Your entry might not be accepted in subsequent events.

I don't think these rules are appropriate for the vast majority of events, particularly at my level.

Precisely.

Just maybe there might be reasons to prevent people publishing stuff that undermines other competitors?

Que?

How can publishing pictures of a sailing race 'undermine other competitors'?
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by patj

How do you prevent public spectators publishing their photos though?

Exactly so. You have no rights to do so, so its imposing on competitors a restriction that doesn't apply to the general public. So if a competitor's partner takes and posts photos without the competitor's approval or encouragement...

Edited by JimC - 26 Feb 14 at 8:21pm
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Posts: 643 		Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 6:29pm
How do you prevent public spectators publishing their photos though?
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 1:51pm
I think this really ought only to be an issue if the event is being subsidised by selling media rights.
Or where the organisers have made arrangements to promote the event in a certain way and people randomly publishing stuff undermines that.
In which case it might be justifiable to expect competitors to toe this particular line.

It might not be a 'belated' DSQ, you could be slung out before the last race.
Your entry might not be accepted in subsequent events.

I don't think these rules are appropriate for the vast majority of events, particularly at my level.
Just maybe there might be reasons to prevent people publishing stuff that undermines other competitors?
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 1:06pm
But who cares about a belated DSQ?  

Once the initial results are up on Y&Y, everyone forgets about it and moves on to the next event.  

Even if you've won before the DSQ and people see an update report, they'll probably still regard you as the moral victor, so...
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Brass

I can't go as far as 'sinister', but I agree that the second provision is over the top.

Yeah, I did change what I originally wrote..

Originally posted by Peaky

So if a competitor did post some gopro footage on this forum, could they be disqualified?

I am not a lawyer, but I don't think so. The only possible rule would be RRS 69, and I don't think that would work for any normal footage. The sailing club could maybe sue you for breach of contract, pay out £200,000 in costs and get 5p damages. And probably get blacklisted two thirds of the classes in the world for hosting any future events. But of course you'd be down all the costs plus 3 years of legal hell as well.


I'm not a lawyer either, but I suspect that a competitor posting stuff that he'd undertaken not to would have broken his contract with the organising body.

Acceptance of the rules still includes the NoR?
Is there any penalty other than DSQ?
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