Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
A question about Moff foils.... |
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Granite ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 May 04 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 476 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 07 Nov 13 at 11:41pm |
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There are scale issues, and flow reigeme issues that complicate things for foils. My understanding of the upward longer winglets on aircraft is that there is a vortex generated at the wing tip. The winglet is positioned so that the part of the vortex that is flowing back towards the aircraft impinges on the winglet. the shape of the end of the wing, together with the shape of the winglet and the toe in angle are all critical to performance.
To get that right on the scale of moth foils would be fractions of a mm and fractions of a degree, so tricky to get right. One of the big effects that helps dihedral provide stability is side slip, I don't thinkt he moths side slip in the same way. |
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If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right
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Mark Jardine ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Mar 04 Location: Milford-on-Sea, United King Online Status: Offline Posts: 1028 |
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Downward-facing winglets already in action at the worlds - this is Ben Paton comparing his foil to world champion Bora Gulari's.
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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It could be connected to neck angle - tilt head, change tip angle. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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iitick ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 09 Sep 13 Location: Tunstead Milton Online Status: Offline Posts: 392 |
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One of our illustrious contributors ..........could invent a system to alter tip angles from within the boat..........
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hobbiteater ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 07 Dec 12 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 107 |
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Famous last words "has reached its optimum" |
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Phil_1193 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 07 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 78 |
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From what I have been told the Moth foil has pretty much reached its optimum.
Needs to be smaller to reduce drag to go faster, but when it gets too small needs more wind to get up - hence why theres an optimum size or you need two sets of foils at £(insert very high figure here)k for varying wind conditions. Would wing tips would add drag as water is thicker than air and reacts differently to a plane wing?? Also if it has plates on the end when the boat was healed, as its generally sailed, would the water rushing over a vertical plate now at an angle affect the line it was taking? Planes fly 'flat' in a straight line, boat foils are not 'flat' to the water when trying to go in a straight line. |
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alstorer ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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the latest thinking with airliner wing tips is both up and down. Being fitted (and tretro fitted) on pretty much all airliners, especially the not-notably-space-limited B737s and A 32xs
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Al |
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hobbiteater ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 07 Dec 12 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 107 |
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From +15 to -7deg or so. The boundary layer is artifically tripped to turbulent bl before it reaches the flaps as it is a lesser evil than flow seperation.
But you are right a big effect is to level the fuselage over the speed range reducing trim drag. |
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aardvark_issues ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 Jul 05 Location: Weston-Super-Mare Online Status: Offline Posts: 505 |
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Fair enough, but I doubt the coefficient of lift of that wing changes much with the flaps full down as they're also tiny so as not to break up the laminar flow. More of a trim change thing once up to speed.
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hobbiteater ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 07 Dec 12 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 107 |
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Err if you look at the picture of the eta (the one on the ground) you will see full span camber changing flaps along the trailing edge err leech Edited by hobbiteater - 06 Nov 13 at 9:02pm |
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