New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: A question about Moff foils....
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

A question about Moff foils....

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Granite View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 04
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 476
Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A question about Moff foils....
    Posted: 07 Nov 13 at 11:41pm
There are scale issues, and flow reigeme issues that complicate things for foils. My understanding of the upward longer winglets on aircraft is that there is a vortex generated at the wing tip. The winglet is positioned so that the part of the vortex that is flowing back towards the aircraft impinges on the winglet. the shape of the end of the wing, together with the shape of the winglet and the toe in angle are all critical to performance.
To get that right on the scale of moth foils would be fractions of a mm and fractions of a degree, so tricky to get right.

One of the big effects that helps dihedral provide stability is side slip, I don't thinkt he moths side slip in the same way.



If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right
Back to Top
Mark Jardine View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Mar 04
Location: Milford-on-Sea, United King
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028
Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 13 at 7:42pm
Downward-facing winglets already in action at the worlds - this is Ben Paton comparing his foil to world champion Bora Gulari's.


Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 13 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by iitick

One of our illustrious contributors ..........could invent a system to alter tip angles from within the boat..........


It could be connected to neck angle - tilt head, change tip angle.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
iitick View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 09 Sep 13
Location: Tunstead Milton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 392
Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 13 at 3:46pm
One of our illustrious contributors ..........could invent a system to alter tip angles from within the boat..........
Back to Top
hobbiteater View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 07 Dec 12
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 107
Post Options Post Options   Quote hobbiteater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 13 at 2:19pm
Famous last words "has reached its optimum" 

Back to Top
Phil_1193 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 07 Jan 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 78
Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil_1193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 13 at 2:10pm
From what I have been told the Moth foil has pretty much reached its optimum.

Needs to be smaller to reduce drag to go faster, but when it gets too small needs more wind to get up - hence why theres an optimum size or you need two sets of foils at £(insert very high figure here)k  for varying wind conditions.

Would wing tips would add drag as water is thicker than air and reacts differently to a plane wing??

Also if it has plates on the end when the boat was healed, as its generally sailed, would the water rushing over a vertical plate now at an angle affect the line it was taking?

Planes fly 'flat' in a straight line, boat foils are not 'flat' to the water when trying to go in a straight line.



Back to Top
alstorer View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 07
Location: Cambridge
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2899
Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 13 at 9:25pm
the latest thinking with airliner wing tips is both up and down. Being fitted (and tretro fitted) on pretty much all airliners, especially the not-notably-space-limited B737s and A 32xs
-_
Al
Back to Top
hobbiteater View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 07 Dec 12
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 107
Post Options Post Options   Quote hobbiteater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 13 at 9:20pm
From +15 to -7deg or so. The boundary layer is artifically tripped to turbulent bl before it reaches the flaps as it is a lesser evil than flow seperation.

But you are right a big effect is to level the fuselage over the speed range reducing trim drag.
Back to Top
aardvark_issues View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 05
Location: Weston-Super-Mare
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 505
Post Options Post Options   Quote aardvark_issues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 13 at 9:10pm
Fair enough, but I doubt the coefficient of lift of that wing changes much with the flaps full down as they're also tiny so as not to break up the laminar flow. More of a trim change thing once up to speed.



Originally posted by hobbiteater

Originally posted by aardvark_issues


Gliders can't change wing camber, so they're looking for big lift in a different way.edit, And the tips break out of the water sooner if they're pointing up. Pointing down is being used though.


Err if you look at the picture of the eta (the one on the ground) you will see full span camber changing flaps along the trailing edge err leech
Back to Top
hobbiteater View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 07 Dec 12
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 107
Post Options Post Options   Quote hobbiteater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 13 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by aardvark_issues


Gliders can't change wing camber, so they're looking for big lift in a different way.edit, And the tips break out of the water sooner if they're pointing up. Pointing down is being used though.


Err if you look at the picture of the eta (the one on the ground) you will see full span camber changing flaps along the trailing edge err leech

Edited by hobbiteater - 06 Nov 13 at 9:02pm
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy