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sargesail View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Oct 13 at 8:52pm
But only because we let the culture be that way - I'll go with the 'Protest' followed by 'fraid you touched that Bill' approach.
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Posts: 1076 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 13 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Brass

But really, life would be easier for everybody if a boat that thinks another boat broke a rule and should be penalised hailed 'Protest' first, before any chatty remarks about 'turns'.

Thing is in friendly club racing yelling of protest all the time comes over as unnecessarily aggressive. In the sort of racing I mostly do one lady or gentleman will call to another "'fraid you touched it Bill", or "that was too close Jane, I had to change course", and anticipate that they'll take a penalty without further argument. Really shouldn't have to introduce a default first shout of protest into that...
We've had this argument recently on another forum, but my position remains that if the protested boat hasn't been properly informed that should affect the penalty, not whether the protest is heard at all..

Totally agree Jim, a polite turns please or you touched the mark John is usually accepted where I sail but that is in a friendly club where winning is not the be all object of the days outing.
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 13 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Originally posted by bustinben

I had a protest thrown out because I didn't go to the race committee straight after the finish and point out to them that I was flying a protest flag.  Apparently you're supposed to do that in case they haven't seen it (that was a protest committee at the Royal London Yacht Club).

My point is, that sometimes a protest committee will decide they don't want to hear the protest (in this case, the PRO, who was also chairing the protest committee was mates with the protested party) and will make up any old crap to throw it out, on the assumption that you probably can't be bothered to appeal it.

It's how the world works unfortunately.  Your only option is to call their bluff and appeal.

Sounds very odd. Was there an SI requiring that competitors notify the RC after finishing that they would be lodging a protest? When was this? If you've hailed and flown your flag and lodged your protest in time, then they have to hear it (absent any SI as above). 


You'd think so right?  No, instead they threatened me with a rule 69 hearing for lying about flying the flag  LOL  The yachty scene is a different world...  I've heard similar stories from others who have tried protests at "old" yacht clubs.

This was in 2008 for a protest at the City Challenge.  The guy bore away into me on the reach. Then while the protest committee was meeting spent the entire time having a go, trying to get a rise out of me.  The whole thing was disgusting and put me off ever getting involved in that scene again!


Edited by bustinben - 27 Oct 13 at 7:04pm
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 13 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by Brass

But really, life would be easier for everybody if a boat that thinks another boat broke a rule and should be penalised hailed 'Protest' first, before any chatty remarks about 'turns'.

Thing is in friendly club racing yelling of protest all the time comes over as unnecessarily aggressive. In the sort of racing I mostly do one lady or gentleman will call to another "'fraid you touched it Bill", or "that was too close Jane, I had to change course", and anticipate that they'll take a penalty without further argument. Really shouldn't have to introduce a default first shout of protest into that...
We've had this argument recently on another forum, but my position remains that if the protested boat hasn't been properly informed that should affect the penalty, not whether the protest is heard at all..
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 13 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by bustinben

I had a protest thrown out because I didn't go to the race committee straight after the finish and point out to them that I was flying a protest flag.  Apparently you're supposed to do that in case they haven't seen it (that was a protest committee at the Royal London Yacht Club).

My point is, that sometimes a protest committee will decide they don't want to hear the protest (in this case, the PRO, who was also chairing the protest committee was mates with the protested party) and will make up any old crap to throw it out, on the assumption that you probably can't be bothered to appeal it.

It's how the world works unfortunately.  Your only option is to call their bluff and appeal.

Sounds very odd. Was there an SI requiring that competitors notify the RC after finishing that they would be lodging a protest? When was this? If you've hailed and flown your flag and lodged your protest in time, then they have to hear it (absent any SI as above). 
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Posts: 1211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 13 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by Peaky

Should you not offer the opportunity of redemption via turns before instigating a protest?

In polite society yes, in the pedantic world some people live in no.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 13 at 1:39pm
Should you not offer the opportunity of redemption via turns before instigating a protest?
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Brass View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 13 at 11:12am
Originally posted by Kev M

If a protesting boat shouts "turns" or something else at a boat before the shout "protest" could it be argued that they didn't "protest" at the earliest available opportunity as they chose to shout something else first instead?
Yes, that would be a logical argument to advance.
 
It was discussed in the first three posts in this thread.
 
I agree with Laser4000 and PEd:  the delay in uttering a few well chosen words in the same sentence as a preamble to the word 'protest' is trivial and not unreasonable.
 
But really, life would be easier for everybody if a boat that thinks another boat broke a rule and should be penalised hailed 'Protest' first, before any chatty remarks about 'turns'.


Edited by Brass - 27 Oct 13 at 11:14am
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 13 at 9:45am
Agreed BB - and they'll soon find that the Appeal process was worse than the hearing in the first place!
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 13 at 8:59am
I had a protest thrown out because I didn't go to the race committee straight after the finish and point out to them that I was flying a protest flag.  Apparently you're supposed to do that in case they haven't seen it (that was a protest committee at the Royal London Yacht Club).

My point is, that sometimes a protest committee will decide they don't want to hear the protest (in this case, the PRO, who was also chairing the protest committee was mates with the protested party) and will make up any old crap to throw it out, on the assumption that you probably can't be bothered to appeal it.

It's how the world works unfortunately.  Your only option is to call their bluff and appeal.
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